Live report from Romania: People still here

Imagine our surprise this morning when we woke up to discover that there are still millions of people living in Romania.

After all, according to just about every news report in the more fascist parts of the UK press over the past six months or so (reports such as this), the entire population of Romania (and Bulgaria) was expected to move to the UK this morning in order to claim British benefits, take British jobs and (don’t forget) kill British dogs.

As of midnight last night, the UK can no longer prevent Romanians and Bulgarians from freely accessing its labour markets. Despite Romania and Bulgaria joining the EU in 2007, the UK had kept some restrictions in place for workers from the two countries. It was this lifting of restrictions which prompted general panic in the UK.

We panicked too. When we checked into a pension for a short New Year’s holiday yesterday we were genuinely worried about whether or not there would be anyone to cook us breakfast this morning.

As it turns out, we needn’t have worried: the UK’s tabloids have apparently been exaggerating all along. The population of Romania did not move as one to the UK this morning.

Who’d have thunk it?

147 thoughts on “Live report from Romania: People still here

  1. Haha you’re such a funny bloke πŸ™‚ actually, according to Daily Mail, all the tickets of all airlines are taken by us, starved romanians. Ofc, British airways first, immigrants are always travelling first class only


  2. NO DOUBT the reports highlighted and many others too (never heard the dog one before) are just scaremongering rubbish ………… ANY sensible person knows this but any sensible person would also know that complete free movement of people, open boarders with no control, knowledge of population increase/decrease and after a short time benefit free for all is extremely irresponsible and has already and will continue to cause problems.

    It’s ridiculous to suggest that a mass influx of people on January 1st would happen all at once, but people who haven’t already come will continue to do so, and not just the UK, I know many who prefer Italy, Germany and Spain to name 3 examples.

    Sadly the Romanian people appear to bear the brunt of the British frustration over immigration, and this IS wrong, but what isn’t wrong IS their frustration at immigration as it is out of control, and has been for many a year.

    I doubt many normal people have an issue with people who work, pay taxes and behave within the law. The issue is with the millions of asylum seekers and immigrants who have no intention of ‘working’ legally, paying taxes (of which we have many) and behaving themselves, not credit card fraud, pick pocketing, scamming, and far worse crimes which have and are occurring daily (facts even the Daily Mail couldn’t make up)

    So it’s a far wider issue and a relevant one, more so than the article Craig writes. He is clearly ‘pro’ immigration and clearly favours the Romanian right to enter the UK, NO PROBLEM with that at all (The Romanian part)

    Clearly the ones who are pro immigration must be ignorant to the pitfalls of the current immigration situation in the UK, it is out of control and has been for many decades now. The current EU situation is just making it worse.

    If you think my opinion is anti-Romanian I ask you to please kindly read again, it is NOT. It is merely highlighting the pitfalls of immigration and some of the problems it does cause. When you consider the ‘legal’ benefits immigrants can bring to a country such as the UK and then you look at the ‘illegal’ benefits they bring, there is a clear divide and not a good one!


    1. Hey Roger,
      I still see you’re unable to source evidence for the complete drivel you write, and you also still cannot spell the word ‘borders’.
      BTW Immigration from within the EU and Asylum seekers are two different issues, please don’t muddy the waters by confusing the two.


      1. @anon

        What part is drivel, the bit where I agree that the stories of a mass exodus and eating dogs as being scaremongering rubbish?

        You clearly have an attitude problem and the part where I said it was NOT an anti-Romanian opinion was put in for the likes of you, I don’t see many others taking my fair points out of context as you are, why is that, ask yourself?

        I know immigration from the EU and asylum are two different things! Where have I said otherwise, the salient point was that this is part of a bigger picture of people entering the UK! Can you not see why that is relevant to the point of open borders?

        Anyway, when someone pulls you up for a spelling mistake, that’s when you know they are really struggling understand a point, never mind make one of their own!


      2. I’m still waiting for you to source some of these problems you speak of.

        This bit is drivel btw
        ‘The issue is with the millions of asylum seekers and immigrants who have no intention of β€˜working’ legally, paying taxes (of which we have many) and behaving themselves, not credit card fraud, pick pocketing, scamming, and far worse crimes which have and are occurring daily (facts even the Daily Mail couldn’t make up)’

        Not only do you lump immigrants in with asylum seekers, you accuse millions of them not working legally and being criminals.

        If you can link to a reliable source, preferably a peer reviewed academic paper such as the one you ignored before, then I will tattoo ‘Roger was right, vote UKIP on the side of my cock’, otherwise shut the fuck up, and if immigration bothers you so much, bugger off back to the uk you racist hypocrite.


      1. Most people can anyway Craig, we can nearly all use our passport for that, although North Korea and Iran could be slightly dodgy for many of us!

        But letting everyone have the right to go wherever they like to live without any control is irresponsible in the extreme.

        Forget the UK and Romania for just a second here, and think about the complete free movement of people to go where they please without any control or thought whatsoever?

        You’re clearly an intelligent man, but I fear your current connection to Romania is clouding your judgement on the bigger picture.

        I AGREE fully with you mocking the odd ridiculous article about 29 million people on the move etc and I have seriously lost count the amount of times I have defended Romanian people against the ignorant and pathetic claims that ”they are all gypsies” but there is a problem with the lack of control of people entering the UK legally or illegally, that is a fact.

        Where do you draw the line of people moving to a better thing when they haven’t contributed anything to the better thing they are moving for? Do you ever limit this or adopt a similar approach to Australia perhaps?

        Oh wait, we can’t, the EU decide what we can and can’t do!

        Herein lies the problem, the EUSSR !


      2. ‘Most people can anyway Craig’

        No they can’t Roger. For non-EU, non-American countries, traveling can be a nightmare.


      3. Agreed – and there’s a small percentage of people who have the coin to do so.

        I don’t intend to fan any flames, but to call the EU the EUSSR I believe does a substantial disservice to the suffering endured by Eastern Europe and Russia during the Soviet years. Just cursory look at the economic, political, and social opportunities available to EU citizens compared to the USSR makes it an apples and oranges analogy.


      4. @anon

        Most people means most people, I’d argue a far more significant population of people are able to use their passport and apply for a visa to travel ……. Yes travel, we are not talking about moving to LIVE somewhere here ….. When you say nightmare, what exactly do you mean or is it more vague hot air from you?

        Traveling if you have the funds is hardly a nightmare, I’m not saying the process is as easy as the free movement of people within the EU, but I’ve had to apply for a visa before now and it was hardly a nightmare!

        So in summary I was correct, most people can travel without any significant problems.


      5. @Colin

        No fans flamed at all, but how exactly is the democracy and freedom that so many people fought for by creating their nation states free from communist control and dictatorship now being eroded by the agenda driven non elected bureaucrats who want to take any form of democracy away from the EU nations, create a new flag for us all and an anthem, and you thing this is what we all fought for ???

        Deary me, the sad reality is that the EU has many, many flaws and is more of a dictatorship than many people realise, although the worm is turning and immigration is a catalyst behind this.


      6. There are 7 billion people on this planet Roger, China and India between them make over a third of that, add in Brazil, Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh etc..and you have most people. You have the joint first in the world passport when it comes to ease of movement for TRAVEL, for most people it’s not easy to get permission to visit wherever they wish.
        Applying for a visa is not the same as getting one, and many countries place a financial hurdle for travelers (i.e. a Slovak friend of mine needed to come with 2 grand in her pocket (or evidence to show she had the funds) when she came to visit me.

        ‘@Colin No fans flamed at all, but how exactly is the democracy and freedom that so many people fought for by creating their nation states free from communist control and dictatorship now being eroded by the agenda driven non elected bureaucrats who want to take any form of democracy away from the EU nations, create a new flag for us all and an anthem, and you thing this is what we all fought for ??? Deary me, the sad reality is that the EU has many, many flaws and is more of a dictatorship than many people realise, although the worm is turning and immigration is a catalyst behind this. ‘

        You know nothing about how the EU functions at all do you? Are are instead bleating out soundbites from UKIP.
        Are you talking about laws passed by the European Parliament who are all elected by their countries (but it’s a shame your UKIP MEP’s don’t bother to turn up and do their job, but still take a salary huh?), or are you talking about the largest legislative body, the European Commission, where laws have to be passed by unanimity NOT majority, meaning that ALL member states must agree to implement the law, and one single objection can see the law shelved.
        No-one forced the UK to sign the treaty of ascension which let Romania and Bulgaria join the EU, your elected members of parliament signed it knowing the obligations that signing the treaty entails. They could have easily said ‘No’.


      7. @anon

        You’re throwing those angry insults around again.

        Calm down πŸ™‚

        I’ll ask you again, where was mine or your vote for the commission ?

        The same vote as we have for our own MP’s, so where was it?

        Not a true democracy, no matter how many times you get angry, you’ll need to do a lot better than that to convince a lot more people than just me!

        Good luck πŸ™‚


      8. Define ‘true democracy’ Roger,

        Are you talking about Participatory democracy? Direct Democracy? Market democracy? New Democracy? Sociocracy? Anticipatory democracy? Theodemocracy? Bioregional democracy? Demarchy? Westminster democracy?

        Because I don’t see the term ‘true democracy’ in any of my politics text books…


      9. Nothing as complicated as that Craig, sorry anon ……. Just a democratic vote by the people of the United Kingdom on the involvement with the EU!

        That is all ………… The last one was before I was born, so to my mind (and many others) not very democratic !


      10. @anon

        Nu, it was a secret ballot to elect Barroso.

        Sorry but it was, Barroso says so himself, or are you going to tell me he is wrong about himself πŸ™‚


      11. Nothing to do with my connection to Romania, and everything to do with my loathing of the nation state and all it stands for. In my world, if a Somali wants to go and live in the UK, let him. If a Brit wants to work in Bangladesh, let him. As for ‘most people can anyway’, take a plane to the US and tell immigration you have ‘come to look for a job.’ Report back with your findings!


      12. @Craig

        Fair enough you are pro EU and a liberal leftie, fair enough, your views, but they are reckless and naive.

        You think that Somalia is the same as the UK and the same the other way round (from a persons point of view to live, work and raise a child)

        I thought you’d have a wee bit more about you than that, obviously not.


      13. Well women here can vote and rightly so!

        So you got any better flaws than that or am I right (again) πŸ™‚

        And why when I make a valid point do you ignore it and fail to answer!

        In fact, don’t answer that πŸ™‚


      14. @Craig

        My apologies, your reply made me assume you were pro EU and a liberal leftie.

        If that is incorrect and I take your word as it is, my apologies.

        I may not agree with all you say but I am as anti EU as you are, maybe for differing reasons but anti EU all the same.


      15. Roger – “The EU wants to take any form of democracy…”???

        Your excessive entitlement is showing. Spend some time living in (let alone being unable to escape from) a truly repressive nation before you make comments that simply make you sound spoiled.


      16. The EU is surpressing democracy on many levels, and this is bizarre considering the whole ethos of the EU and the nation states within, many of which fought for freedom and democracy!!!

        OK of course it isn’t as bad as some former nations and some current ones, of course I AGREE!

        But lets not be blind to the fact that democracy is being eroded and they want a single EU super power which is hardly the freedom and democratic ideology we all strive for, is it ?

        Or shall we be run by un-elected people who have no forms of mechanism to remove them?

        And that’s democracy ???

        Bizarre !


      17. ‘Or shall we be run by un-elected people who have no forms of mechanism to remove them? ‘

        Who are these non-elected people?

        The EU if anything is more democratic than most individual EU countries since EVERY SINGLE MEMBER STATE HAS TO AGREE ON NEW LAWS TO BE PASSED.


      18. @anon

        I’ll be honest and say I’ve not read the last two of your latest rants so they are wasted on me but if you could tell me when the opportunity to vote for Van Rumpuoy, Barroso or even our very own Baroness Ashton was …… Then you have my full apologies !

        So when was the vote to elect them and when can we vote to remove them please, yours sincerely Roger πŸ™‚

        I suppose forcing the Irish to vote again was their finest hour in democracy !

        Ha ha brilliant, you just get better !


      19. Van Rompuy (you didn’t spell his name correctly by the way), was democratically elected by democratically elected heads of state in 2009. He was voted in unanimously.
        His second term ends in 2014 when he will step down and a new person will be elected.

        Barroso was again democratically elected by the democratically elected members of the European Council.
        His second term will also end in 2014.

        Baroness Ashton was Nominated by a a democratically elected government and then democratically elected by the democratically elected MEP’s in the European Parliament by 538 to 40 votes, with 63 abstentions.

        Ironically, those 63 abstentions would have included many UKIP MEP’s who are notorious for not attending parliament, unless it’s for something which affects their salary.
        I found a source you may sympathise withβ€œdreadful”-attendance-research-and-voting-record-ukip-meps


      20. @anon

        Yes spelling mistake again (clear sign you’re either angry or frustrated as this isn’t an English exam, it’s an obscure website !

        Oh and thanks for proving that all 3 were not voted in position by the people’s of Europe!

        Where was mine and your vote anon?

        What mechanisms do we have to remove them?

        The people should elect, as simple as that, in a true democracy ……….

        Not a secret ballot of EU beaurocrats! (spellt jusst 4 u) πŸ™‚


      21. You really don’t understand how a democracy works do you? They were elected by representatives chosen through general elections…just like every law passed in the UK.


      22. @anon

        Democracy is being able to vote and elect who determines your laws and legislation.

        Me or indeed even you didn’t have that vote for the EU commission, that is a fact …….. You can’t deny!

        Unless you can prove we did have a vote and give me the date we can vote to remove them?

        3 or 4 times down a chain and then saying ”well your MEP” voted for them in a secret ballot is not democratic and it appears plenty agree!

        Democracy means democracy does it not?

        You really are a naive individual incapable of debate with a rational and fair mind …….. You have one entrenched view and will listen to no other?

        I suppose you could always pull me up for a spellwing mustake though eh?


        So anyway anon, when are we getting that vote to elect the EU commission then ?

        Where do I post my ballot paper?


      23. ‘Democracy
        n. pl. deΒ·mocΒ·raΒ·cies
        1. Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.’

        Would you like me to define the word ‘either’ for you too?
        You didn’t do very well at school did you?


      24. Roger, can you name me one country where the electorate can vote out a minister?

        I’ll make this easy for you since you were either asleep during your PEP classes.

        There are several types of democracy, the most common is representative democracy as practiced in the UK.

        You elect a local MP who usually belongs to a major political party, that local MP will vote on your behalf to establish a government (in effect voting for the Prime Minister). The Prime Minister votes on your behalf in the European Commission, all laws suggested by the EC *must* be accepted by the democratically elected representatives of the respective EU member states.

        There is also the European Parliament which is a separate EU body. They are filled with MEP’s from all member states of the EU, who are directly elected by the electorate (that’s you) to represent the electorate’s views in the EU parliament. This is identical to how your MP represents you in the UK.

        The only government in Europe where the electorate has a direct say in the running of the country is Switzerland, which practices a form of Direct Democracy where referendums are held on proposed motions which must first cross a threshold of support.

        If you have a problem with the way you are represented in Europe then vote for MEP’s who reflect your views (and actually bother to turn up to parliament), or you could write to your elected representative (the Prime Minister, and let him know how dissatisfied you are with the way he’s been representing your views [of course he’s likely to tell you to stop reading the Daily Mail but hey!])

        It sounds like you either don’t understand how the UK electoral system works, or are frustrated with it, but the mechanisms behind that and the EU bodies are very very similar.


      25. Similar BUT not the same anon!

        And do try to cut out the abuse, it makes you seem as though you’re losing the debate πŸ™‚

        I’m willing as from my very first post to see BOTH sides and yet you are on a one sided abusive rant old bean!

        Calm down, be a wee bit more mature and I’ll discuss things with you …….. However your ignorant refusal to answer my questions and blatant disregard for my actual PRO immigration views means you’re a hopeless task, I presume, by your own actions!

        Anyway seeing as you can’t tell me where my vote actually is …….. Can we have a EU referendum please? πŸ™‚

        I mean when was the last time as a nation we had a vote on Europe, before I was born !

        And that’s what you call democracy πŸ™‚

        Brilliant !


      26. anon Love the way you say if I have a problem with our current model then write to Cameron and practically be laughed at πŸ™‚

        What a fair and non biased individual who is able to see all sides and points of view you truly are πŸ™‚

        Switzerland sounds good, are they all racist’s in your book anon πŸ™‚


      27. You don’t get a vote on it Roger, just like you didn’t get a vote on the Gay Marriage bill, various bills that deregulated the financial industry, or votes on the privatization of public services, or how the legal system should work.
        That’s how a representative democracy works.

        Just about every law passed in the UK…you didn’t vote for, and you know what, you can’t vote out any of our elected representatives either!

        So I’m sure you’ll be arguing that the entire political system which the UK is built on is a complete shambles for not allowing you to vote on individual issues?


      28. Ah we don’t get a vote on it ?


        You sure?

        Are those political books of yours out of date anon?

        I mean I could have sworn Cameron was saying he’d negotiate our ties with the EU and then we could have a ”vote” on it !

        I mean yes, the very thing you’ve just said we can’t get!


        Oh dear anon, and what’s wrong with the Swiss model for us!

        You’re not having a good night old bean!


      29. The Swiss system is fine, but not without it’s problems; it took until 1991 for them to finally guarantee all women the right to vote for example.


      30. And Cameron will never give you a vote on EU membership. It’s political bluffing to try and ensure he gets reelected. The UK would be fucked if they somehow left the EU.


      31. Well women here can vote and rightly so!

        So you got any better flaws than that or am I right (again) πŸ™‚

        And why when I make a valid point do you ignore it and fail to answer!

        In fact, don’t answer that πŸ™‚


      32. I answered you ‘valid point’ but it was blocked by the filter
        ‘And Cameron will never give you a vote on EU membership. It’s political bluffing to try and ensure he gets reelected. The UK would be fu***ed if they somehow left the EU.’

        The swiss problem is that DD results in ‘Tyranny of the Majority’ and some idiotic choices like when California decided to try Direct Democracy and bankrupted itself.


      33. anon You’ve skipped many of my ‘valid points’ all night, like a true politician πŸ™‚

        Cameron may well be a liar, but it will be political suicide on his part, IF he wants another term after the referendum deadline is ‘set’

        And rather than you avoid all my others points (which you will) as your debating skills are lacking and one sided ……..

        How in your expert opinion is the UK ‘fcuked’ as you so eloquently put it if we leave the EU?

        I mean are BMW suddenly going to stop selling us cars?

        Is nobody going to trade with us?

        Will we be in such a dire state as the Swiss πŸ™‚

        Oh dear, anon MUST be right, a naive pro EU supporter has ALL the answers lol !

        You’ve been entertainment and no doubt will continue to do so!

        Oh and you’ve got plenty of questions to answer that you’ve so far dodged πŸ™‚

        This really is noapte buna!

        I’ll be back though, to see if you’ve managed to answer my questions …………. I bet I am right as usual and you’ll have failed !


  3. One of the good things about immigration is food. Living in the western US I wouldn’t want to be in a world without Mexican food. Maybe marketing a few approachable Romanian dishes would help smooth things over in UK.


    1. I’ve tried plenty of Romanian food and liked almost all of it!

      But this really isn’t a UK v Romania debate although many on BOTH sides would try and make it to be!

      Besides our chav culture back here wouldn’t eat anything unless it can be cooked in a microwave or ordered over the phone!


      1. And the immigration debate in the US isn’t a US v. Mexico debate either, it’s a process of figuring out how to live together in a world where borders are less important and less effective than they were.

        I think food is an important part of that process.

        For Romanians in UK, I would start with chimney cakes.


      2. Agreed to an extent, but sadly food can’t overcome ingrained cultural differences!

        Just look at the Asian/Muslim population in the UK, and you can’t say we haven’t embraced the curry!


      3. Not sure which cultural differences between UK and Romania you are most worried about. Any Romanians that decide to stay will integrate easily. And might just improve things – we could definitely do with a bit more energy and living for the moment.


      4. @Geronimo

        I’m not talking about Romanian people so please stop trying to make this a UK v Romanian debate, it’s not, well not my point of view anyway, if you’d read my original post!


  4. It’s difficult if not impossible to blame Romanian and Bulgarian workers for the situation they’re in.

    The EU approved membership far too early, and they knew it at the time. Since then, all they’ve done is thrown up their neo-Victorian Euromittened little hands and threatened to take the vapors when either the Romanian or Bulgarian governments didn’t follow through on required reforms. I think this does much to explain the relative silence from Brussels and western EU capitals about the lifting of work/immigration controls.

    On the whole, most Romanian and Bulgarian citizens have been abandoned by both their own governments and the EU. Let them do what they need to do.


      1. EXACTLY Craig, well said, and this is one of the many reasons there is a growing backlash towards the EU as EU LAW dictates what happens in the UK and NOT UK law!

        There is a far bigger picture to the EU debate than just immigration.


      2. By relative silence I’m referring to fewer public statements from Brussels in support of the law or willing to enter a dialogue about it than has happened with other EU/Romanian/Bulgarian issues. Put another way, they’ve done less than I expected at defending the law compared to what they’ve done in the past.


  5. You have no idea how badly disqualified you are, Englander, after all this hate and dirt anti-Romanian campaign. Not only the savagery, but the stupidity is striking. Barbaric stupidity apears to be very popular among Englander. There are exceptions, like Craig, but the evil is already done.


  6. There are significant advantages of immigration for the UK. Most immigrants are relatively young and won’t rely on the NHS and will contribute significantly more in taxes and social security payments than what they take back. There are losers such as schools being overcrowded but overall immigration makes a significant financial contribution to the health of the UK economy: source
    Its a great pity likes of daily mail, UKIP & Tories have not tried to have educated intelligent debate rather than stirring up fear


      1. @anon

        Absolute rubbish from you again. Why are you trying to make this a fight ?

        What is your problem, are you one of the very FEW Romanian people who have a chip on their shoulder at anyone who dares to point out the odd flaw in mass immigration and no control over a countries borders?

        I mean seriously, get a grip and think out of the box.

        Let me be VERY clear, of course immigration has benefits, it DOES!

        But it has flaws too, why do you want evidence against what I agree with ?

        But if you want evidence of just one example of the flaws of immigration, well I gave you the pointers to the latest official crime figures from the MET …… You then spat your dummy out claiming it was not your job to research this and it was mine to prove so ?

        I don’t have to prove anything, there is counter evidence out there to show immigration DOES have flaws …….

        You’re either not intelligent enough to know this simple fact or just choose to ignore it !

        Which one is it ?


      2. No I’m not Romanian Roger,
        Show me the crime figures from the Met which you speak of because I don’t see anything that supports your claim here
        And the report that you were linked to the last time you shat out UKIP soundbites, showed that immigration correlated with a reduction in crime.

        It’s not my job to reference your UKIP claims.


      3. @anon

        The crime figures are fact, and the MET even has it’s own department to deal with immigration and asylum crime, here is the link

        Now I am not sure what your problem is anon?

        But I will make myself perfectly clear for you, ok?

        I LIKE Romanian people, I find my particular generation, on the whole, nicer than my generation in the UK!

        I am not ‘shat out’ UKIP soundbites, you keep saying?

        I am merely daring to suggest that immigration and asylum is an issue in the UK …….. I am also saying that these two issues DO cause problems and have their flaws ………

        Now you have every right to claim immigration and asylum cause not a single problem and free open borders is a great thing …….. No problem, your decision ……

        I just dare to differ to that view ……….. In fact I actually AGREE immigration has some benefits (ignore that bit as usual)

        BUT I am also intelligent enough to know it also has flaws ………

        I actually doubted you were Romanian, as they are generally more intelligent than you appear.


      4. And once again @ anon

        Please read my original post.

        You are trying to make this a UK v Romania debate, it is not, from my side anyway!

        I LIKE Romanian and the vast majority of people I have met and my many Romanian friends.

        All I am trying to say is that the complete free movement of people has its flaws and that the UK has encountered problems and will continue to do so with mass immigration and asylum seeking on a scale which is growing and growing.

        Sorry if that makes you angry but its not my fault you struggle to understand a simple concept.

        Please calm yourself down and perhaps you’ll have a more balanced and educated view?

        And once again, just so you can’t possibly be confused, I actually believe immigration DOES have some benefits!

        I just also feel it has flaws too and needs to be controlled!

        Oh and Happy New Year πŸ™‚


      5. Do you read the links you post?
        Op Maxim deals with immigration crime, i.e.
        Human Trafficking
        The facilitation of human beings into the UK
        Identity document abuse
        Proceeds of Crime Act actions

        Not crime by immigrants…and that only arrested just over 100 people.

        The second is to the Statistics office homepage, but the crime stats on that have nothing that breaks down the amount of crimes committed by immigrants.

        The third link is hilarious, as it’s one of the studies referenced by the paper that was posted last time you had a UKIP meltdown, and actually shows that immigration from the A8 countries DECREASED LOCAL CRIME.

        ‘When we examine the body of empirical work based on panel data of crime and immigration rates across localities in various developed countries, the overwhelming conclusion is that overall immigration has almost no effect on crime, whether violent or property crime.’

        The breakdown of the results shows that Asylum seeker populations where there is a restricted access to labour markets causes a slight rise in property crime, which vanishes when they are allowed to access the labour market.

        So thank you Roger for providing more evidence to back my position, and yet again none to back your up.


  7. I’ve been hearing a lot more Romanian on the streets of London in recent months. In fact I passed through an area near Seven Sisters recently and it was pretty much all Romanian. A good thing as far as I am concerned – and the sooner it all turns into some good Romanian restaurants, the better.

    As for immigration, it fuels economies and improves cultural life, no? I can’t see how we are going to build more schools, improve hospitals and fund benefits, pensions and other ways of looking after each other without it.


    1. @Gazza. I find most Romanian restaurants here in Romania (especially Bucharest) rather crap! Can’t see them doing any better in London, unless they employ workshy Brits.


      1. I was hoping for a coliba style affair. I tried one in East London on a rough council estate. The food was crap and the sound track was some mad relative groaning and banging his head on the table


    1. ”I would like you all to read Rogers comment about immigration causing an increase in crime”

      NO, never actually said that ………….. So please stop telling lies @anon.

      I have been very clear about my views and it seems to annoy you?

      Why anon?

      What is your problem?

      You really need to learn to read properly as it’s making you look silly and appear a bitter angry man/women and you’ve still not wished me a Happy New Year πŸ™‚


      1. ‘But if you want evidence of just one example of the flaws of immigration, well I gave you the pointers to the latest official crime figures from the MET.’


      2. You have figures of crimes by immigrants and asylum seekers, you also have the link to the official department set up to solely tackle this issue.

        Not sure why you are still having problems digesting it?

        Once again (5th or 6th time?) I refer you to my clear points addressed to you and will ask, what’s your problem anon?

        Come on, be a big boy/girl and spit it out πŸ˜‰


      3. ‘You have figures of crimes by immigrants and asylum seekers’
        Asylum seeker figures are irrelevant given that the discussion is about EU migration. The study you posted shows that unrestricted migration from the EU, and controlled migration from outside the EU results in a small reduction in property crime.

        As for your ‘you also have the link to the official department set up to solely tackle this issue.’, the simple case of Racist Roger not reading his own sources pops up again.

        Op Maxim was not set up to deal with ‘crimes by immigrants and asylum seekers’ as you claimed, it’s set up to deal with organised immigration crime, that is crimes related to (and I quote)
        ‘Human Trafficking
        The facilitation of human beings into the UK
        Identity document abuse
        Proceeds of Crime Act actions’

        Even *if* it was set up purely to catch thieving immigrants, the 172 arrests over 2 years is not exactly a stunning piece of evidence that immigration is out of control.


      4. @anon

        Ah so now I’m racist?

        The abuse starts now eh?

        You really are a misguided and angry individual anon, I actually skim your posts now as you keep ignoring my points and questions, so I’ll do the same in return.

        You need to go back to post number 1 by me and start again ………. And whilst on the subject, since when did YOU decide what the debate was about and what points others are allowed to make ???

        Mine is simply that immigration and asylum seeking has its flaws ……………… (this seems to anger you and you disagree)

        Fine, but don’t judge someone on facts you’ve made up in your own head, be a little more classy than that!


      5. You mean statements like this
        ‘ When you consider the β€˜legal’ benefits immigrants can bring to a country such as the UK and then you look at the β€˜illegal’ benefits they bring, there is a clear divide and not a good one!’

        Please Roger! Show me evidence of the ‘illegal’ benefits being caused by Immigration.

        ‘The issue is with the millions of asylum seekers and immigrants who have no intention of β€˜working’ legally, paying taxes (of which we have many) and behaving themselves, not credit card fraud, pick pocketing, scamming, and far worse crimes which have and are occurring daily (facts even the Daily Mail couldn’t make up)’

        Something like
        1)Their being millions of Asylum seekers and immigrants who have no intention of working legally. (hint: total migration each year is around 150,000 people, not millions)
        And that they disproportionately are responsible for an increase crime rate, specifically ‘credit card fraud, pick pocketing, scamming, and far worse crimes’ (hint: by your own sources, they don’t)

        I like how you’re using the ‘LALALALALLAAL CAN’T HEAR YOU’ defense though. You really are quite amusing.

        ‘Boarders’ – heh.


    2. From Roger’s own source!
      ‘β€˜When we examine the body of empirical work based on panel data of crime and immigration rates across localities in various developed countries, the overwhelming conclusion is that overall immigration has almost no effect on crime, whether violent or property crime.’


      1. Indeed it was anon ………….

        And you know why ?

        Because I have told you over 5/6 times already on this very thread that immigration is not all bad, it actually has benefits and I am more than happy to provide evidence for BOTH sides!

        You really are blinkered and rather naive and foolish aren’t you?

        Why can’t you see that an individual can have a view on both sides and not just an angry blinkered one like yours!

        Shall I throw in a spellwing mustake so you can really make a point against me πŸ™‚


  8. So we are all agreed ?

    Immigration is nothing but beneficial with not a single flaw and more so not even one ever proved or recorded!

    Brilliant debate with such intellectual and open minded, fair thinking individuals πŸ™‚

    Funny how all my positive and pro immigration comments were completely ignored, must be the high level of intellect of you guys, that’s why you missed them all πŸ˜‰

    It has often been said than you can’t get two side so well ingrained in their own belief’s and some of you have proved this (to date)

    Well I’ll stick with my pro and reserved approach to immigration thanks all the same (thumbs up smiley thing)


      1. Oh dear anon, you’ll have to do better than that πŸ™‚

        Now you’re actually proving you’re getting angry!

        Why not post another rant which I can laugh at and then ignore any salient question I pose, along with continuing to ignore my PRO immigration comments!

        You can’t tippex that out anon, can you!

        Noapte buna x


      2. @anon

        Still waiting for your balanced reply to my questions posed at 10.37pm ?

        You can’t go on a pro EU rant all night, can you?



      1. OK OK, I give in ……… I like that small sausage thing michi? and the baked beans mixed with, well I dunno, but they are lovely!

        I also had a cheese filled pastry thing too, delicious and the home made wine to wash down samale, home made bread and lashing of that sour cream stuff !

        Some of the home made food I’ve had in Romania, is the best food abroad I’ve ever had!

        Don’t tell anon though, he/she will flip !


  9. Haven’t seen this firey a debate since we (the government I mean) decided to exterminate all the dogs. I read people talking about the food. Let’s be honest; Romania, she is not known for her food. Nightlife, yes. But how do you export that to the UK I wonder?


    1. I’d like us to export dogs. As man’s best friend to the West, as foodstuffs to the far East. I don’t care.

      And I sincerely do hope we don’t somehow manage to export our nightlife to the UK. I hear the British youth has enough problems with alcoholism as it is without us adding more fuel to the fire.

      (patiently waits for Brits and/or dog lovers to throw a fit)


      1. The issue with British nightlife is that everyone’s so fucking fat that you *have* to get slaughtered to make the place look nicer. I never saw any fight or aggro in Bucharest at night, just lots of slim, attractive people.


      2. @Geronimo

        If these ‘fat Brits’ bother you on a night out in Bucharest so much, why don’t you go and tell them?

        I’m sure they’d be surprised to speak to a Romanian with an attitude like yours, at least I certainly would as in over 10 visits to Romania I find the vast majority of Romanian’s thoroughly nice people and continue to tell people back home the same!

        The odd person who gets confused and angered by a debate wont put me off what I have seen with my own eyes in Romania and maybe you and anon are not even Romanian anyway!

        I can’t see one person on this whole thread insulting Romanians so you to mock the British seems a tad childish and perhaps you’ve misunderstood the debate and it’s angered you?

        Relax and try and understand that differing views (within reasonable means) doesn’t make you need to resort to abuse.


      3. anon what nationality are you then, as you’ve said you’re not Romanian and obviously have a hatred for British people so my bet is you’re from a country like Belgium or France?

        Not everyone on a night out is ‘fucking fat’ though, a far few, agreed, but not everyone.

        I thought you only dealt in facts but bitter angry lies seem to be on your agenda of late.

        Life shouldn’t make you so angry and ranting at strangers on an obscure website won’t really help address your issues!


      4. According to WHO statistics taken in 2007, the % of overweight people in the UK exceeded 60%, making it the third fattest country in the world.
        So the question I have for you Roger is the following:
        How big are your tits? And do they jiggle around when you goose-step?


      5. @anon

        Oh dear, a new low, even for you!

        So now you’re attacking British people for being fat and implying I’m that fat I have tits and do a Nazi style ‘goose step’

        You told me you were not Romanian, so what nationality are you then?

        And actually you’d be surprised at my age and weight and if you’d read my posts properly my personality.

        Racist and Nazi lol, if only you knew!

        But I’ll take being told I am fat with a pair of tits as a compliment πŸ™‚

        You don’t take being taken for a fool well, do you!


      6. Are you two still at it? It’s gone 2am, jeeez! anon you are a Rom, trust me you are, guaranteed son! So stop pulling Rogers 7inch middle stump will ya.


      7. @anon. Interesting. I’ve never met a Brit who introduced himself as for example, ”Hi I’m anon and I’m a Brit”. No Scot, English or Welsh person would say they were a Brit, never.


      8. Haha, do you want a copy of my fucking birth certificate or something…scratch that, I don’t need to prove to people on the internets that I was born and raised in Britain.


      9. ”on the internets”

        How very British of you anon πŸ™‚

        I see my praise for the Romanian people and their culture annoys you to the point you’ve only got abuse left to give!

        Is now a good time to remind you that I also think immigration has some benefits too?


        This ”internets” really isn’t doing your blood pressure any favours anon!


      10. Perhaps anon is from the Channel Islands, the Falklands, or Gibraltar? Maybe people there might describe themselves as Brits.


      11. IF anon was born and raised in Britain as he claims, then why does he type many of his posts as if he’s from another country?

        Why did he refer to himself with a term I’ve never known anyone British person to do so before?

        Why does he have such an abuse filled hatred for anything British?

        And why can’t he have a level headed outlook and the simplistic ability to read posts and their meanings on their merit, like most, nearly all have done on this thread so far!

        I suspect he/she is Romanian, although I have to say it comes as a surprise as the VAST (no apology for capital to make this point) The VAST majority are nice natured, intelligent, welcoming and a pleasure to call my friends.

        Give me a room full of Romanian’s my age (younger end of life) than a room full of British people any day of the week!

        Of course that is a generalization statement but on the whole judging from many a ‘night out’ that really is my genuine belief!

        The sad fact that dared to raise doubts and highlight flaws in the free movement of people into the UK, asylum seekers and question the EU ssr, seems to have sent anon’s blood pressure sky high, put Craig’s swear filter into overdrive and perhaps cost anon having to fork out for a new keyboard as he punches in his rants, sorry replies πŸ™‚


      12. Born in Exeter, grew up in the home counties. The name of my nation is Great Britain as written in my Passport. Not England.

        And Roger, no matter how many times you say ‘you mad?’, I’m not…I’m quite amused at how little you know about issues which you comment on.

        You still have yet to provide *any* sourced to back up the apparent negative sides to immigration, and when you tried, you obviously didn’t read the sources as they didn’t say what you thought they did.


      13. @anon

        You type your posts in a strange way, and that leads me to believe your upbringing wasn’t a British education, your hatred and anger towards ‘Brits’ as you call us, is rather strange, considering you say you’re a ‘Brit’ or British, English, Welsh, Scottish or Northern Irish as we’d possibly say back home!

        As for providing no evidence that immigration has some flaws ………… I mean come on, seriously?

        Any sane individual would agree immigration has pros and cons …….. You don’t need me to prove that to you, surely!?

        I provided evidence that showed pros and cons to immigration! That is my stance, and no matter how angry you get, I’ll not change that opinion.

        And for the 10th plus time, just for you, so there can be NO confusion, I like Romania, its culture and people, many good friends I can call upon who are Romanian and if I’d spent more time there, I’d imagine I’d have better Romanian friends than British!

        And as for immigration, well, how many times do you need telling, seriously?

        It has good points and bad points!

        Can I ask, are you seriously saying immigration has NO flaws, bad points whatsoever and none have ever been recorded, ever ???

        Answer me that question and if you admit there is, we agree and you can save your anger for someone else!

        If you say no, it’s never had a single example of a flaw or bad point, then we’ll agree your insane, genuinely delusional!

        Oh and you’ve still not wished me back Happy New Year πŸ™‚ being a fellow ”Brit” as you call us!


      14. What are the bad points Roger? Tell me. Please!
        Economy? you’ve been provided with sources that show immigration brings a net positive.
        Crime? You yourself provided evidence that immigration lowers local crime rates…

        Tell me Roger, what are the bad sides to immigration and please source them.


      15. @anon

        Immigration has benefits and it also has some flaws, rarely is anything in life perfect.

        For you to say immigration has NO flaws and has never caused a single problem is quite frankly delusional and you sound very silly in saying so.

        Once again I have provided evidence to show the benefits of immigration as well as flaws.

        How can a rational debate be had with an individual like yourself who (unlike me) can’t see the plus points and negatives in immigration?

        FORGET about Romanian people for a moment and lets use British immigrants/migrants as just ONE example to show that flaws exist …………

        Now if you can prove to me not a single British immigrant has ever caused a problem be it benefit fraud, a criminal act, deception, social problems, integration issues etc etc whilst as an immigrant in another country ……..

        If you can do this ……

        I’ll aplogise and admit that you are 100% correct in what you say and I am wrong, in fact, I’ll never post on here again ……..

        So come on, now is your chance anon.

        I’ve used just one example and if immigration is as faultless as you claim, you should be able to prove so easily πŸ™‚

        And you’ve still not wished me Happy New Year fellow ”Brit” or whatever it is you claimed we describe ourselves!


      16. @Roger. If you want to be friends with ”Hi I’m anon and I’m a inbred from Exeter” just tell him you hate Romanians, it’s what he wants to hear. ..I’ve just had me Sunday roast and the missus wants to settle down to watch Titanic on the box. I’m totally bloated so the last thing I want to see is Miss Piggy Kate Winslet on screen. I’ll throw me guts up! Another thing, is the TV (keep out of this Davina) in UK still showing wall2wall Christams commercials like they still do here? It will be till March when they finally drop them here.


      17. I never said this though Roger.
        ‘For you to say immigration has NO flaws and has never caused a single problem is quite frankly delusional and you sound very silly in saying so.’

        You’re making shit up.


      18. @Mr R πŸ™‚ Well wall to wall DFS cheap sofa sale and 50% off at this that and the other commercials as you’d expect as well as wet and miserable much like my new best pal anon!

        Speaking of which @anon ………. You’ve failed to admit you think immigration has a single flaw, so I’m not making anything up, unless you tell me that you admit immigration has its flaws ???

        When you finally do, I’ll take my victory in good taste as long as you wish me a Happy New Year as I’ve done for you on many occasions!

        Maybe this is the start of a beautiful friendship πŸ™‚


      19. Although in my opinion the vast majority of people on a night out in Bucharest of all shapes and sizes are extremely attractive, as a nation Romanian people are one of the most attractive I’ve ever seen …….. Girls my preference but I’m secure enough to admit the boys are too.

        I’ve never seen so many ‘stunners’ in such a short space of time and you don’t even need to be on a night out, just a trip on the metro is like being in a beauty contest!


      20. @anon

        Yet more abuse and insults from you because I made a nice comment and opinion on Romanians!

        So basically if I praise immigration and say nice things about Romania, its people or culture (which I do often) ……….. It sends you into a vile, hate filled rant at me !

        You’re beginning to look rather pathetic anon, and by your own doing πŸ™‚

        Oh and a CAPITAL typed word, just to keep my fans happy too !


      21. @Phil

        No problem mate, I’ve made the resident fans of CAPITAL letters and smilies πŸ™‚ very happy indeed!

        The only one who seems upset is our resident ‘Brit’ anon !


      22. No, agree with the youth alcohol problem and the dog thing is a small group of Brits who don’t have the facts at hand.

        I have always thought you too sensible to jump on a bandwagon Giuseppe.


      23. anon is certainly a very angry individual who appears to hate British and fat people with a passion!

        The thing what really winds him/her up is when you say you actually agree that immigration has some good points ………. Just look at what me saying this did to her/him !

        It seems to be with anon you either HATE immigration or LOVE immigration, no middle ground, balance or debate, it’s one or the other!

        Pamalat’s love child with Davina ?


      24. @Giuseppe

        Fair enough, as said I’d thought it quite unlike you to behave like that!

        I’m getting quite a reputation for using smileys so rather than let my new fan club down πŸ™‚


    1. I declare Roger the winner. A combination of ignorance of his subject and the excessive use of passive-aggressive smileys. How can you beat that?


      1. Well, what could have been a sensible debate was ruined by anon and him having to resort to insults and picking out the odd spelling mistake, the irony is his latest post contains one!

        Anyway, I’ll just say this again for the benefit of all ……. I am not a racist, I can see the pro’s and con’s on both sides ……… I agree immigration has plus points and I also dare to suggest it has flaws too.

        Why that is such an insulting and wrong opinion I’ll never know ?

        However when trying to discuss with the likes of anon who are so well entrenched in their own view, people with a differing opinion which even agrees with them at times too, really haven’t a chance of getting any sense or reasoning from someone like that!

        anon could say the sky is blue and then I’ll agree with him and then he’ll rant it’s not the same blue as what you’re saying it is πŸ™‚


        And Rearguard I’m an average 7 inches but I’ll let anon have that one as the way he goes on he sounds like an old women anyway !


      2. @Roger. I read in the Daily Mail a few months back that the average size tool in Romania is about 4inches! And that’s in the summer!


    2. @Rearguard

      Well anon has declared it’s not Romanian and even if I said it had a 9 incher it would argue I’m wrong so I’ll leave it to answer your question!

      As for the Daily Fail, never read it, chip paper is about all it’s good for, although I don’t eat chips, as I’m not fat πŸ™‚


  10. And why would Romanians move to the UK? Terrible food and weather, not to mention an inordinately goofy culture. Romania may be corrupt, but its authentic Europe and that’s why I moved here.


    1. You have never tried Cottage Pie then? What about the crap all you Yanks eat, Burger King and McDonalds? I wouldn’t even feed it to my cats! And not to mention you’ve still got the fattest wankers and the dumbest people on the planet, fact, end of, lol, deal with it bitch, talk to the hand, hasta la vista, I’d buy that for a dollar.


      1. @Davina

        Unless your upbringing was in Romania, Mr Rearguard is factually correct to refer to you as an expatriate.

        If you don’t like wind, rain and mild wet summers than yes, I fully agree, the British weather is terrible but the food?

        How do you figure that, I mean one of the most popular foods eaten is not even British, and some of the traditional British dishes aren’t so bad, how many have you actually tried?

        Anyway, besides all of that, you’re on here constantly mocking Romania and its people, so God only knows why you spend so much time there!


  11. Does anybody know what the attendence was for Manchester United v Swansea FA Cup match? I am sure there were many empty seats or their fans were dressed as Santa Claus, but I can’t find the attendence recorded anywhere? Any other club I can find but ManU seem to be keeping it a secret.


    1. 73,190 But I’d take that with a massive pinch of salt after that GMP report on the ‘official’ attendances where United were counting ST holders who had never entered the ground as if they were there anyway ……… GMP have to know the proper figure for safety reasons and quite often it was far lower than the ‘official’ figure released to the press.

      Plenty of empty seats in the lower tiers tonight though, unless they’d come dressed as a red plastic seat πŸ™‚


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