How many?

Here’s a news story for all those people who think feeding Bucharest’s stray dogs is a good idea:

Dogs maul Romanian woman to death

Yep, it’s happened again. (The poor woman mauled to death yesterday was not the first person to be killed by Bucharest’s stray dogs).

So we were wondering: How many people have to die before the rights of the human beings whose city this is become more important than the (non-existent) rights of stray dogs?

Alas, we all know the answer.

Even after this latest death, there are still people insisting that killing the stray dogs is wrong. We cannot make up our minds if they are naive idiots, mentally ill or simply evil.

Links to our previous posts on the issue:

April 2010
February 2010
May 2009

NOTE: Comments on this post are now closed. See why here.

400 thoughts on “How many?

  1. I hope that your “we” is in fact an “I” for I think most of us would have stopped at “naive”. The percentage of people dying from dog bites in Romania is probably as low as that of the (non-indigenous) people that get hurt while picking up an etiquette book. Perhaps though king philosophers such as yourself tend to get a little more non-selective in their word choice when they become victims of such incidents.

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    1. No, you’re wrong. There is a vociferous minority of people in Bucharest who place the rights of stray dogs above those of humans. Naive is not a strong enough word for these people.

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      1. The stray dog situation has perhaps gotten out of control but if so, the main culprit is the local administration You blaming with such harsh words some compassionate Romanians does not seem right to me.
        For a long time those animals were used to produce soap, coats and who knows what else and Romanians who remember that feel strongly about giving dogs some space. The government is not big acting on it or at educating people about the sound solutions so there is a lot of passion but no direction. Even so, “idiots” and “mentally ill” are words hard to swallow by the average Romanian and while they are not your main audience I would hope that even most expats find them exaggerated. An imbecile (I can say that, I am Romanian) like Corneliu Vadim Tudor would have easily gotten away with it but you have fewer rights when it comes to insulting the locals so I felt the need to point that out.
        Thank you and I’ll let you have the last word.

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      2. “but you have fewer rights when it comes to insulting the locals so I felt the need to point that out.”

        Could you explain why exactly?

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      3. I see no empty bottles around to warrant us using lower than expect language on this platform and even if the audiences’ level were lower, a person can do much more harm by creatively combining harmless words.
        But you seemed to have asked “why only you?” – to a degree or another. I think it is because, regardless of how much of an authority you are on an issue or how strongly you feel about something, it feels right to exercise diplomacy and respect when communicating with a person of a different culture, nationality or religion. For instance, while an Englishman might find it acceptable to say “f… the Queen” that would seem impossible for me to do – and I don’t mean that logistically. Without well understanding the culture, the complex factors at work defining a people and sometimes without sharing painful and special moments especially your criticism but also well-intended advice will not carry credibility. (Unfortunately this is what Ion Ratiu did not understand – not to mention our king.)
        Much of the above might not apply here where the audience is specific but if any value has what I shared I think that, at the expense of being less colorful, it is perhaps better to keep a more neutral tone; use satire instead, it works.

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      4. C’mon, we’re trying to have a conversation here and exchange some ideas. Of course the ones who protect the dogs are at least idiots.

        What I would add is that those idiots are not only from Romania, there are many idiots in Europe too who say not to kill the dogs but wouldn’t move a finger to help with the situation.

        This time we should solve the problem PDL-style: let everyone talk and do what we want to do. The situation has gotten out of hand.

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      5. Correct. Nowhere do I say ‘Romanians.’ Many of the most vehement supporters of animal rights are foriegners, usually those insulated from the problem in gated communities and SUVs.

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      6. Is it hard to obtain the British citizenship – I have some scores to settle from the Tony Blair era?

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      7. Most expats found it exaggerated when I said that I would make soap and coats out of some gypsies.

        People who watched but never commented on this blog came out of their silence back then.

        I still would make soap and coats out of most gypsies. And dogs too. And give all soaps for free at the countryside where the soap consumption per capita is one of the smallest in Europe. Not that it would change anything, people would still use those soaps in their warderobes to perfume their clothes…

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      8. > I still would make soap and coats out of most gypsies. And dogs too.

        I would be more careful when posting such trash. You should know that both Romanian and European laws incriminate such garbage.

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  2. This is crazy, stray dogs kill people in an European capital. I mean it’s not like some villain trespassing a private property and getting killed by 1-2 pitbulls, but ordinary people getting killed by 20 stray dogs on the street!

    It can not continue anymore, somebody has to do something!

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  3. Craig;I think you should use your influence and ask this questions to all Brigitte Bardot sponsored NGOs and see if you can find anyone willing to fight against all those who profit from selling all kind of dog maintenance (vaccines,sterilising stuff etc.)bullshit.The strays are their customers and the idiots that pay taxes in every city are their sponsors.This is big business.Any mayor knows that spiting against the wind is not a good move if he wants to keep his career going.Remember who started screaming few years ago when Basescu tried to get rid of the dogs in Bucharest?On whose side where you then?What about Alison Mutler and other fellow expats who feel the urge to scream out loud all over the international media networks their “insider”ignorance on Romania!Go figure!…Hope you finally start asking yourselves questions and then in your pursuit for answers start asking questions to those really interested in maintaining the strays roaming on our streets!Best regards!

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    1. Why anyone in Bucharest listens to Brigitte or any of the other foreign dog apologists is beyond me. Which other country would be so insecure?

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      1. Even Basescu was impressed back then by those dog apologists. Maybe it’s because he lacked experience with NGOs and he didn’t know how to ignore them.

        If it was I in power, they wouldn’t turn me around not even with a tank.

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    1. What laws?! The only law that would turn Romania’s roads safer is a law that would confiscate 2 million cars.

      No matter what law you apply, those roads were meant to support 10 times less cars then they are today.

      This situation will last forever or until everyone buys cars from which they don’t die anymore. Or until 2050 when the projected population of Romania will drop to 17.000.000. I think there will be some space to breathe on the roads at that point…

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      1. Parmalat,

        Well, ok, good point. So where is the highway system? Any other EU country I have been in has a network of highways linking the country together. But even with one, the police still need to be a bit stricter than they are given that Romanians tend to be pretty wild in all the high end cars they have suddenly acquired. Romania has many variables at play that always create a volatile cocktail; you have the EU’s second poorest country that has no highways and yet many of the driver’s have nicer and more powerful cars than the average Westerner does and then you have a police force that does not enforce the speed limit outside villages. I’ve had cars blow by me at 200 kph on roads with a speed limit of 90 kph. Where are the police. There’s a horse cart no doubt up ahead! Watch out!

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  4. While I don’t disagree that the stray dogs are a problem and without stray dogs, this probably wouldn’t have happened, this particular story is hardly strong evidence against them.

    Why was this woman in a locked compound? Why was there a pack of dogs inside the locked compound? Did anyone see what happened? If not, you can’t automatically draw the conclusion that she was walking along minding her own business when a pack of dogs jumped her and tore her to pieces for no good reason.

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    1. Anca,

      How come there are no dogs in Budapest, a neighboring capital? What is it in Bucharest that attracts them? I often am just minding my own business when dogs approach me in Bucharest. Just down at the back of the Novotel there’s a dog that took a bite out of my messenger bag. He lunged towards me and I threw out my bag saving my leg from a wound. Also, try sending a letter at the post office on Str. Matei Milo on the other side of the Novtel! There are a heck of a lot of dogs there as well! I think they have claimed the space between Str. Mate Milo and Str. Ion Campineanu as their own.

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  5. Damn dogs are a menace and need their population reduced drastically. Neutering is not the solution, it may work for small stray populations, but the number of strays here requires a massive cull, followed by a strict neutering campaign (while we’re at it restrict the number of puppies sold on the street or in a shop, why people feel the need to buy one instead of rescue one from a shelter is beyond me. And as for the cretins who sell them on the street, they are nothing but scum. Two weeks ago i saw 4 shivering puppies freezing on a car bonnet, while some twat was parading one to passing traffic.)

    The vocal crowd who prevented a cull have blood on their hands every time someone gets bitten. It’s easy enough to stand on your soap box and cry about animal cruelty, but I don’t see any campaigns to rescue or re-home dogs. I would have hoped someone like Bridget would instead of forcing her morals on other people while she sits in luxury, would import some strays and put them up for adoption on France.

    Meanwhile, the dogs near me prevent me from getting a descent nights sleep. If anyone knows of a humane poison, and how to get it, I’d appreciate any help. I don’t really fancy using anything homemade as they can be unnecessarily painful and may not get the job done.

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    1. Soda caustica should do the trick, works for humans 😀

      But I think a better solution would be mere rat poison, in bigger quantities. And it can be found relatively easy.

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      1. Killing dogs in the cities (and outside for that matter) does not work; other dogs will move in as the main source of dogs are the gullible Romanian peasants. They pick from their newest batch whatever they want to replace or fell they can barter for a pint of tzuica and abandon the rest on the curve. Have those bastards loose one single chicken and their starving dog (if not instantly killed) is abandoned and replaced the following day.
        Over the past few years I’ve collected from the highways a few dozen starved and/or injured puppies and brought them to a dog shelter in Pitesti. (By the way, every single one had found a home in Germany or Austria, fascinating woman Frau Ute Langenkamp .) I never brought a dog into the city but I don’t rule out doing that, especially if I can get my hands on the addresses of the erotic massage parlours Parmalat is frequenting. Either way, dogs will move in so killing or neutering only those in the cities will not solve the long term problem. I am sick enough to have spent a fair number of nights thinking about this problem and I think that the only rational solution is to subsidize neutering (a decreasing expense) and impose a heavy taxation on those who refuse to have their dogs neutered.
        You might not be aware but to control dog diseases passed onto humans the authorities had created a pretty sophisticated network which with the support of local authorities and with national funding – some recouped of that 24% diverted from beer value added tax Parmalat puts into the system via “caustic soda” acquisitions – we might just solve the problem. The Pitesti/Ute Langenkamp unit, using only private funds, neuters hundredths of dogs a day employing minimal personnel!
        You know something; if your simplistic solutions would have more than anecdotal value you would have solved many of the City’s serious problems – such as those generated by the sunflower seeds.

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      2. Err read my first paragraph. I said cull, followed by strict neutering (and yes, I would make that compulsory for all owners with few exceptions).
        Neutering is a method of controlling the population, first we need to get the population to a size that is manageable.
        I never said restrict this to the cities.

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      3. If you neuter dogs they remain on the streets. The point is to get them off the streets, as in the western world. And what we can all probably agree on is that we all want Romanians to be able to enjoy western European standards of living, in town and country.

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      4. Former mayor (current president) Basescu’s opinion on neutering:

        “Câinii ne muşcă, nu ne f**, aşa că de ce să-i castrăm!?”

        As translated:

        “Dogs bite us, don’t f*** us, so why neuter them!?”

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      5. Yes, as much I hate him I have to admit that the man did provide the audience with a few memorable moments.
        That line was somewhat off the record, but most of his memorable moments were off the record…

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    2. There are plenty of groups on FB that are getting dogs in shelters homes! Be it foster homes out of Romania or new homes in the USA!! So Jut123456 you know nada about what you are on about! You are just out to have a moan!! And you have contradicted yourself byt saying neutering is not the solution. It IS a solution and a kinder one over the way these savage dog catchers operate! A dog warden in the UK would be sacked and prosecuted for the way these monsters in Romania behave! The pole is not for strangulating a dog.
      Have you ever gone for days without food?? Or water?? No! These dogs have come from homes in some cases, they have already had human contact and been domesticated so are crying for a reason. The dog I am adopting was one! So many are, they get thrown out because all of a sudden they get old or have an illness! And it is easier for the owner to throw the responsibility out! Hope that someone else takes it on! That is just ignorance! And ignorance is dangerous! How can any poison be humane??? Are you for real??
      You are a hypocrite on one hand you slate people for standing up for the dogs and that the dogs are a menace etc blah blah blah yet then you complain about someone trying to sell puppies. Make your mind up eh?

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      1. How may dogs are currently on the streets of Romania?

        How many dogs are exported annually from Romania?

        By performing a simple calculation how long will it take to remove the majority of strays from the streets of Romania?

        I’ve not contradicted myself by saying neutering is not an answer, if you take the time to read http://www.fao.org/fileadmin/user_upload/animalwelfare/WSPA_RSPCA%20International%20stray%20control%20practices%20in%20Europe%202006_2007.pdf which has been compiled by the RSPCA and WSPA, you will see that neutering only programs do not reduce stray population sizes, and in countries with the most effective stray management programs neutering is not a common practice. If I’m wrong show me that data, from a peer reviewed journal that shows I’m wrong.

        How can any poison be humane? simple, if it doesn’t cause distress, pain or suffering. The American Veterinary Medical Association lists several poisons which are classified as humane and suitable for euthanasia here (http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfare/euthanasia.pdf) If they are wrong I would expect you to write to them explaining why. 
        In fact they have this to say
        “The use of injectable euthanasia agents is the most rapid and reliable method of performing euthanasia. It is the most desirable method when it can be performed without causing fear or distress in the animal.”

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      2. The poison that was referred to was things like rat poison and antifreeze! Not pentobarbital. Again get of your high horse, wind your patronizing neck in! And stop with the lecturing!

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    3. There are plenty of groups on FB that are getting dogs in shelters homes! Be it foster homes out of Romania or new homes in the USA!! So Jut123456 you know nada about what you are on about! You are just out to have a moan!! And you have contradicted yourself byt saying neutering is not the solution. It IS a solution and a kinder one over the way these savage dog catchers operate! A dog warden in the UK would be sacked and prosecuted for the way these monsters in Romania behave! The pole is not for strangulating a dog.
      Have you ever gone for days without food?? Or water?? No! These dogs have come from homes in some cases, they have already had human contact and been domesticated so are crying for a reason. The dog I am adopting was one! So many are, they get thrown out because all of a sudden they get old or have an illness! And it is easier for the owner to throw the responsibility out! Hope that someone else takes it on! That is just ignorance! And ignorance is dangerous! How can any poison be humane??? Are you for real??
      You are a hypocrite on one hand you slate people for standing up for the dogs and that the dogs are a menace etc blah blah blah yet then you complain about someone trying to sell puppies. Make your mind up eh?

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      1. How may dogs are currently on the streets of Romania?

        How many dogs are exported annually from Romania?

        By performing a simple calculation how long will it take to remove the majority of strays from the streets of Romania?

        I’ve not contradicted myself by saying neutering is not an answer, if you take the time to read http://www.fao.org/fileadmin/user_upload/animalwelfare/WSPA_RSPCA%20International%20stray%20control%20practices%20in%20Europe%202006_2007.pdf which has been compiled by the RSPCA and WSPA, you will see that neutering only programs do not reduce stray population sizes, and in countries with the most effective stray management programs neutering is not a common practice. If I’m wrong show me that data, from a peer reviewed journal that shows I’m wrong.

        How can any poison be humane? simple, if it doesn’t cause distress, pain or suffering. The American Veterinary Medical Association lists several poisons which are classified as humane and suitable for euthanasia here (http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfare/euthanasia.pdf) If they are wrong I would expect you to write to them explaining why. 
        In fact they have this to say
        “The use of injectable euthanasia agents is the most rapid and reliable method of performing euthanasia. It is the most desirable method when it can be performed without causing fear or distress in the animal.”

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      2. The poison that was referred to was things like rat poison and antifreeze! Not pentobarbital. Again get of your high horse, wind your patronizing neck in! And stop with the lecturing!

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  6. We’ve all heard of guerilla gardening by now. Why not start guerilla culling? Go out at night, kill a few dogs, dispose of them neatly and enjoy the benefits when after a few weeks all is quiet.

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    1. find me a poison that is efficient, and I’ll be out on the street at 2am “feeding” the dogs.
      Warfarin would do the trick, but the LD50 is fairly high, phenobarbital is another option, especially in this cold but getting hold of it is tough.
      Caustic soda, although an option, is more likely to injure rather than kill unfortunately.
      The mutt’s nut’s would be strychnine though.

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      1. Why go out at 2am? I feed them plenty of chocolate during the daytime. I pay no attention to the old women telling me chocolate can kill dogs.

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      2. WHAT GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO GO OUT AND LAY POISON FOR THESE POOR DOGS TO CONSUME!??? HAVE YOU EVER WITNESSED ANY ANIMAL WRITHING IN AGONY AFTER CONSUMING POISON?? NO I DOUBT THAT VERY MUCH! AND AS FOR USING RAT POISON ANY DOG WOULD HAVE TO EAT ITS OWN BODY WEIGHT IN POISON FOR IT TO HAVE ANY AFFECT! I KNOW THIS FOR A FACT AS I DID PEST CONTROL FOR A COUNCIL IN THE UK! MAYBE YOU SHOULD THINK ABOUT WHAT IT IS YOU TYPE OUT BEFORE YOU PUT IT IN FUTURE. ANTIFREEZE NOW HAS A BITTERANT INCLUDED IN ITS INGREDIENTS TO PREVENT POISONING SO ANOTHER ONE STAMPED OUT!!
        THESE DOGS FOUND THEIR WAY UPON THE STREETS THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN! THEY WERE NOT ALLOWED INTO THE NEW HOUSING COMPLEXES THAT WERE BUILD FORCING THEIR “OWNERS” TO DESERT THEM ON THE STREETS. SO OVERBREEDING MADE THEIR POPULATION GROW!
        THIS MURDER OF DOGS HAS TO END! THE ONLY HUMANE OPTION TO CONTROL THIS PROBLEM IS TO SPAY AND NEUTER! END OF!

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      3. I CAN TYPE IN CAPS TOO!
        My right? well there is no way for them to be humanely euthanasied (that would be the fault of people like you) I value my safety when walking home at night, I’m sick of the smell of dog shit on the street and value my sanity with regards to continuous sleepless nights.

        As for “Rat poison”, I suggest you go and claim back any money you may have paid for your education after stating that “ANY DOG WOULD HAVE TO EAT ITS OWN BODY WEIGHT IN POISON FOR IT TO HAVE ANY AFFECT!” (you meant to say effect). The LD:50 for Warfarin in dogs is 3mg per kg of body weight per day for 5 days (source http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/pyrethrins-ziram/warfarin-ext.html) A 20kg dog would have to consume 60 mg a day over 5 days before it died, not 20kg as you so claim.

        And not all antifreezes here have a bitterant added.

        Now can you show me a peer reviewed study that contradicts the conclusion drawn in the study mentioned on my other post that CNR is ineffective? 

        oh and I just can’t let this pass
        “I KNOW THIS FOR A FACT AS I DID PEST CONTROL FOR A COUNCIL IN THE UK!”
        Why is it ok to kill those poor fluffy rats and mice (with warfarin mind you), and the majestic insects that inhabit people’s homes but not dogs? You sir are a hypocrite.

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      4. WHAT GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO GO OUT AND LAY POISON FOR THESE POOR DOGS TO CONSUME!??? HAVE YOU EVER WITNESSED ANY ANIMAL WRITHING IN AGONY AFTER CONSUMING POISON?? NO I DOUBT THAT VERY MUCH! AND AS FOR USING RAT POISON ANY DOG WOULD HAVE TO EAT ITS OWN BODY WEIGHT IN POISON FOR IT TO HAVE ANY AFFECT! I KNOW THIS FOR A FACT AS I DID PEST CONTROL FOR A COUNCIL IN THE UK! MAYBE YOU SHOULD THINK ABOUT WHAT IT IS YOU TYPE OUT BEFORE YOU PUT IT IN FUTURE. ANTIFREEZE NOW HAS A BITTERANT INCLUDED IN ITS INGREDIENTS TO PREVENT POISONING SO ANOTHER ONE STAMPED OUT!!
        THESE DOGS FOUND THEIR WAY UPON THE STREETS THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN! THEY WERE NOT ALLOWED INTO THE NEW HOUSING COMPLEXES THAT WERE BUILD FORCING THEIR “OWNERS” TO DESERT THEM ON THE STREETS. SO OVERBREEDING MADE THEIR POPULATION GROW!
        THIS MURDER OF DOGS HAS TO END! THE ONLY HUMANE OPTION TO CONTROL THIS PROBLEM IS TO SPAY AND NEUTER! END OF!

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      5. I CAN TYPE IN CAPS TOO!
        My right? well there is no way for them to be humanely euthanasied (that would be the fault of people like you) I value my safety when walking home at night, I’m sick of the smell of dog shit on the street and value my sanity with regards to continuous sleepless nights.

        As for “Rat poison”, I suggest you go and claim back any money you may have paid for your education after stating that “ANY DOG WOULD HAVE TO EAT ITS OWN BODY WEIGHT IN POISON FOR IT TO HAVE ANY AFFECT!” (you meant to say effect). The LD:50 for Warfarin in dogs is 3mg per kg of body weight per day for 5 days (source http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/pyrethrins-ziram/warfarin-ext.html) A 20kg dog would have to consume 60 mg a day over 5 days before it died, not 20kg as you so claim.

        And not all antifreezes here have a bitterant added.

        Now can you show me a peer reviewed study that contradicts the conclusion drawn in the study mentioned on my other post that CNR is ineffective? 

        oh and I just can’t let this pass
        “I KNOW THIS FOR A FACT AS I DID PEST CONTROL FOR A COUNCIL IN THE UK!”
        Why is it ok to kill those poor fluffy rats and mice (with warfarin mind you), and the majestic insects that inhabit people’s homes but not dogs? You sir are a hypocrite.

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    2. Ok, but why are there so many dogs?! Here in New York there just are NO strays. I mean there are just no dogs roaming around. What happened in Bucharest?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

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  7. well the fact is that people do not do anything about it!!!!hahahhah
    what does the mayer or the president do????nothing!!!!
    dogs totally don’t deserve this!!!!

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    1. MOM there are a few charities that are doing alot about it. Groups on Facebook are donating money to help individuals who are taking the dogs in off the streets! There are still a few good hearted people who actually care about the dogs! The Mayors need to see things differently and it will happen!

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    2. MOM there are a few charities that are doing alot about it. Groups on Facebook are donating money to help individuals who are taking the dogs in off the streets! There are still a few good hearted people who actually care about the dogs! The Mayors need to see things differently and it will happen!

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    1. It will work a treat, but not in 7 hours, over a few days. around a litre for a medium sized dog will do the trick  but that animal will suffer a slow and agonizing death so I wouldn’t recommend trying it. Veterinary assisted euthanasia please! But vigilantism is bound to happen when fanatics force a government into a policy which will not control the stray population.

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    2. It will work a treat, but not in 7 hours, over a few days. around a litre for a medium sized dog will do the trick  but that animal will suffer a slow and agonizing death so I wouldn’t recommend trying it. Veterinary assisted euthanasia please! But vigilantism is bound to happen when fanatics force a government into a policy which will not control the stray population.

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  8. Greetings everyone!

    First of all, congrats for the blog, it’s been a good read for me these last months – i hope my first comment will be an interesting contribution.

    Here-s a very interesting survey concerning stray control in Europe.

    http://www.fao.org/fileadmin/user_upload/animalwelfare/WSPA_RSPCA%20International%20stray%20control%20practices%20in%20Europe%202006_2007.pdf

    – It compiles info from a lot of countries with more or less successful policies.
    – Culling and neutering are among the methods, along with owner education, legislation, adoption, registration and licensing etc.

    I invite you to read it, and here’s my opinion:

    What is common is that all ‘success story’ countries are applying long term solutions consistently, and stray control is a permanent activity.
    You can’t solve the problem by simply ‘killing the dogs’ or ‘saving all the dogs’. You need to organize, then apply and enforce the chosen strategy. It’s a tall order that needs thorough thinking.

    As for going out at night to kill dogs, it seems a strange and not very productive activity – i’m sure you’re not posting that seriously 🙂
    There would even be ‘friendly fire’ cases on humans if you use ‘chemical warfare’ methods… 🙂

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    1. In the mean time, since this article was posted, the number of stray dogs living close to my building went up from 1 to 4…

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  9. Perhaps Craig Turp should do his research before posting a blog that quite frankly I don’t think he knows all that much about!!! Stray dogs are a way of lacing the corrupt fat cats of Romania. Do a little back ground work on how much the authorities have to gain by having the dogs on the street. And for your information there are many decent people who are trying to solve the problem in a humane way!!!!

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  10. Perhaps Craig Turp should do his research before posting a blog that quite frankly I don’t think he knows all that much about!!! Stray dogs are a way of lacing the corrupt fat cats of Romania. Do a little back ground work on how much the authorities have to gain by having the dogs on the street. And for your information there are many decent people who are trying to solve the problem in a humane way!!!!

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  11. The Romanian strays problem is down to the corrupt government and dog catchers, they catch them, kill the cute fluffy little ones and release the big ones back on to the streets to keep the fear of being attacked in the minds of the people. The dogs catchers are paid by how much in weight they can get rid of. Do your research 

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  12. The Romanian strays problem is down to the corrupt government and dog catchers, they catch them, kill the cute fluffy little ones and release the big ones back on to the streets to keep the fear of being attacked in the minds of the people. The dogs catchers are paid by how much in weight they can get rid of. Do your research 

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  13. I cannot believe what i am reading you sad sad individual i hope someone comes along and does to you and your family what you are suggesting doing to these animals. 
    Oh i hope you can afford to feed you and your miserable family because i for one would not even give you the crust of my bread. 
    You need to get your facts and figures right before spouting your mouth of, you stupid little individual oh so someone was mauled to death my god can i ask where when and how this happened was it on the streets or was it at a building ??????? oh please let us know seeing as you have all the statistics. Talk about talking out of your arse you must be one sad and lonely  person to have to talk such dribble. Get with the programme and become civilised do you really think all the countries who are watching and reading these things are going to sit back and take it. NO you are now in the EU so get your act together and start working within the EU laws as for tourism do you think people will want to come knowing what you are doing i would say think about it but obviously thats a bit beyond you because to think you need at least one brain cell.    

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    1. Since when does Romania need to take lessons from a bankrupt entity such as the EU or from a criminal one such as the US?!
      We don’t have enough dogs to kill in the entire country to equal how many people the US killed in the last 10 years alone.
      Romania will in the end, considering the economic and cultural decline of the West which is taking place as we speak, follow it’s own path and it’s own judgement.

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      1. why are you going on about USA and if you dont like being in the EU speak to your govenment and send the money back simple aint it 

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      2. You mean TAKE BACK the SIDEX, the PETROM, the BRD, the BCR, the RomTelecom and so on…

        Give back what?! The EU should give back what they’ve stolen. What did the EU give to Romania to compensate for what they’ve stolen?!

        But hey, the EU is a bankrupt entity anyway, not sure if even open frontiers will remain from it 10 years from now.

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    2. We’ve been invaded by the anti-human brigade again. 

      I would suggest, however, that before you start going on about ‘working within EU laws’ you should check what is best and standard practice in the EU when it comes to stray dogs. Take Britain for example (which the last time I checked was still in the EU), where thousands of strays are killed each year. See here: http://www.bucharestlife.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Dogs%20Trust%20Stray%20Dog%20Survey%20Figures%201997-2010.pdf 

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      1. Indeed, Britain is one of the last remaining decent countries in the world, in spite of all trouble others have dragged it into. If Romania is to take any lessons – it should look for Britain to provide inspiration.

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      2. Can we now have Romanian statistics re killing strays but can we have the ones that are done humanly 

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      3. Zero, because up until a couple of months ago it was illegal to humanely euthanise stray dogs thanks to pressure from animal rights groups.
        Just because you make something illegal, it doesn’t mean it’s not going to happen, and when you take tools away from people, they will improvise.

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      4. Anti human brigade?? And who do you think you are Craig Turp?? What is your beef?? In the UK the dogs are not strangled, abused, beaten, shot or murdered! Regardless the shelters feed and give the dogs water! We have micro chipping, and overall the welfare standards are 100% better than what Romania has now! All we are trying to do is get that standard up to ours! What is wrong with that?? Surely it is better for the children of Romania to grow up seeing a country where compassion is there for animals full stop! Not just agricultural animals but the poor stray dogs that end up on the street because of negligent ignorant people who need to be re-educated.
        I am in the process of adopting a Romanian dog! She is NOT ferocious she has never shown any aggression whatsoever!
        Spay and neuter, get rid of the old ways and bring in new and humane methods if need be!!

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      5. Yes you’re right that dogs are not strangled, abused, beaten, shot or murdered in the UK by the authorities (what exactly is the difference between euthanasing a dog and murdering it, oh and shooting is a legitimate method of euthanasia, after all your hamburger was shot, as were your shoes).

        Now why do you think some people take the law into their own hands and kill dogs on the street? Could it be because up until a couple of months ago euthanasia was illegal in Romania, so it was not possible to have a dog humanely put down by a qualified veterinarian?

        “the poor stray dogs that end up on the street because of negligent ignorant people who need to be re-educated.”
        I’m afraid it is you who needs to be re-educated. The dog population on the streets is not due to ignorant people of today (unless you include yourself in that group), but is a population which has grown over the decades thanks to a wild population that was allowed to go unchecked. The vast majority of these animals was born on the streets and will die on the streets. The other group of people letting these animals lose on the streets are those who advocate CNR over a combination of re-homing and euthanasia. Each one of those dogs you see on the street with a tag in it’s ear (and you would be hard pressed to find one without that tag), has been released AFTER capture due to legislation animal welfare groups forced through preventing humane euthanasia as an option.

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      6. The difference is THE PAIN AND SUFFERING THE ANIMAL ENDURES BEFORE IT DIES.
        You really have no idea what is happening in your own country, take of your sunglasses, take out your earplugs, and go and FIND OUT WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON WITH THE STRAY’S OF ROMANIA.

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      7. It’s not my country, and I’m fully aware of the situation here.
        Now could you please tell me which methods of humane euthanasia have been available to the Romanian population over the last couple of year?

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      8. So you know the history but why keep on at people who have the beliefs in life is life! Cows are killed by a captive bolt to the head once that happens they are unconscious and dead! But who is talking about meat?? We are not discussing cattle or meat! It is dogs! A totally different subject!
        I don’t need to be re-educated and I am far from ignorant! You know nothing about me or anyone else on this blog!
        Alot of dogs are tagged to say they have been sterilised but they haven’t due to corruption and greed!

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      9. What’s the difference between a cow and a dog? They are both vertebrates, capable of emotional responses and complex thought. They both share the capacity to express a wide range of emotions such as pain, fear, suffering, happiness, joy etc… Biological speaking there is very little difference between the two.
        The only difference between the two is purely that western society has came to see dogs as cute and lovely, whereas cows have been seen as food. 

        Why is a dog’s life more important than a cow’s outside of your social preconceptions?

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      10. Look you are addressing someone who eats meat! Limited to beef and chicken and pork but yes I eat meat! My first job was in a butcher’s shop and abattoir so I have seen how it is done! Things have changed from 20years ago, the UK has stringent welfare standards regarding animals going to slaughter which is less can be said for other countries (no names will be mentioned for fear of cherry picking accusations)
        Dogs are eaten in China, where they are skinned alive for their furs and eaten! Crammed into crates and cruelly murdered.
        I adore animals no matter what be it cows, dogs, lambs, ducks not so much creepy crawlies but I can tolerate them! I just do NOT agree with cruelty of any kind. Cows are bred for meat, pigs for bacon. I don’t eat lamb as I don’t like seeing them disappear at 3 or 4 months old from the fields, it doesn’t seem right to me but it’s life! And people are entitled to their own desires.
        Life is life but some animals are also bred for food, but they shouldn’t have to endure pain or bad welfare to end up on a dinner plate!

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      11. So now that we’ve established you have no problem killing an animal as long as it’s done humanely, would you be happy if conditions in shelters were drastically improved, captured animals given a period of time in which to be re-homed, and if a home is not found, then humanely euthanised by a licensed veterinarian?
        If not why?

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      12. Shelters should be improved yes! Who wouldn’t agree to that! But this is what is meant to happen anyway. They are meant to be given a chance, they need to spend more money on improvements, advertising the dogs, allowing people to actually go into the shelters to view prospective pets. There is a big difference being humanely euthanized and being beaten to death or shot dead. Euthanasia is a last resort, unless the dog is ill beyond helping, injured beyond helping, at an age where quality of life is lowered drastically, or aggressive. But I thought that was the law anyway.

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      13. “Shelters should be improved yes! Who wouldn’t agree to that! But this is what is meant to happen anyway. They are meant to be given a chance, they need to spend more money on improvements, advertising the dogs, allowing people to actually go into the shelters to view prospective pets.”

        Agreed

        “There is a big difference being humanely euthanized and being beaten to death or shot dead. ”

        Yet again agreed, but remember by making euthanasia illegal people will resort to other methods. Just because something is illegal it won’t stop it from happening (look at drugs and prostitution), and if it’s going to happen I would rather it happened under controlled and safe conditions.

        “Euthanasia is a last resort, unless the dog is ill beyond helping, injured beyond helping, at an age where quality of life is lowered drastically, or aggressive. But I thought that was the law anyway.”
        That is the case, but until recently Euthanasia was illegal for healthy but unwanted animals leading them to be put back on the street, which isn’t dealing with the problem. 
        By giving animals a period of time to be re-homed, before euthanasia takes place frees up room in the kennels for more dogs to be processed, otherwise you end up with full kennels which do not empty, while the stray population continues to grow. Only 3 EU countries don’t euthanaise unwanted animals after a period in which attempts are made to re-home them. I don’t see why Romania has to join the minority.

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      14. Well put. Alas, here is where the latent liberal racism steps in. You see, while in Britain and other places the authorities can be trusted to humanely put dogs down, those nasty little Romanian picaninnies couldn’t possibly do the same.

        You find the same racism when it comes to mining with cyanide and the Rosia Montana issue. When you point out to people that some of the cleanest, most environmentally friendly countries in the world (New Zealand, for example) use cyanide in gold mining, people reply ‘yes, but that’s New Zealand, not Romania. Romanians can’t be trusted with cyanide.’

        Sorry to call a spade a spade, but that’s racism. The liberal version of.

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      15. Stray dog’s are killed in U.K in a HUMANE way, with dignity, and no pain. Stray’s in Romania, are BEATEN, STARVED, HUNG, BURNED ALIVE, AND ANY OTHER SADISTIC MEANS THAT THE BRAINLESS IGNORANT ANIMAL ABUSERS OF ROMANIA CAN INFLICT UPON THEM.
        Is it no wonder that the stray’s bite and attack people as you say, when they are abused on a daily basis. Would you not fight back if you were to endure what they endure everyday of their miserable lives. Kick a dog when it’s down, and IT WILL BITE YOU, AND SO WOULD I YOU MORON. 

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      16. What legal methods of euthanasia were open to Romania over the last couple of year? Please tell me!
         
        BTW “stray’s” should not have an apostrophe. 

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      17. Anon Very brave that you cant even give a name!!! Are we talking about what happens in Romania – a country that needs to get up to speed with the rest of the EU or are we participating in nit picking over somebodies punctuation??? You rant on and call people names we are by no means nut jobs that sit on our behinds in a stray free country! Some people actually live in Romania that fight for the rights of these living and breathing animals!! And the car accidents are often caused by the mindless idiots behind the wheels of the car because they will not stop or slow down for the dogs who stand or walk in the road! Now we can remain neutral and calm about it or we can all kick off!!! You make the choice! You want evidence for what cause?? We have plenty of evidence! There are photos and videos from Youtube that show what goes on in this country! In various shelters the dogs are not fed or given water! The dead dogs bodies rot down and are eaten by starving dogs! Where they end up getting euthanized or battered anyway!! RAA, Asociata Ador, Facebook groups individuals who have their own land take these dogs in! I am a single parent and I have made 100s of pounds in donations to help towards getting dogs the help that they need!! So cut the crappy attitude and get off your high horse!

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      18. “Anon Very brave that you cant even give a name!!! ” 
        Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. My name makes no difference to the points made.

        Now would you care to address the points made in my posts or shout and scream like a baby?

        Why does you being a single parent have anything to do with this? congratulations you had sex and failed to keep a successful relationship with your partner. It’s irrelevant to the discussion
        Although your donations are admirable, “100s (sic) of pounds in donations” is a drop in the water compared to the scale of the problem and has minimal impact.

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      19. OMG!!! have you ever actually taken a look at what you put?? Or are you so far up your rear end you can only see what you type the once??? Who is screaming like a baby? I do not have to answer to you especially someone of very high intelligence but has zero manners or authority to criticize.
        My statement of being a single parent was to answer a question once again put by someone else asking what was being done!! So once again you have stuck your oar in! And how dare you insinuate anything when you know nothing about me my child or anything else!! Pathetic in my opinion that you have to kick off at people for no other reason than to belittle and try to intimidate! How very brave NOT!
        My donations have made a  big impact in allowing dogs to get surgery and to help with the purchase of food and other necessities! So, weirdo stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

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      20. No my reason for “kicking off at people” is when they enter a discussion with name callling, typing all in caps with obviously crap “facts” such as 
        “AND AS FOR USING RAT POISON ANY DOG WOULD HAVE TO EAT ITS OWN BODY WEIGHT IN POISON FOR IT TO HAVE ANY AFFECT! I KNOW THIS FOR A FACT AS I DID PEST CONTROL FOR A COUNCIL IN THE UK!”

        Have you thought to actually answer my original question to you or will you just keep on overusing exclamation marks!!!!!oneeleven!!
        “What legal methods of euthanasia were open to Romania over the last couple of year? Please tell me!”

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      21. I donated too. 20 pounds for some Somali drought relief fund. Whether it’ll be used for a bag of beans or for 20 bullets, I’m confident too that my donation has helped to improve the world.

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    3. except for barking such ugly insults and here in your comment – what have you actually DONE to help the dogs or the people bitten?
      i took 9 strays, took care, called the vet doctor for vaccins, etc, and found home for 4 of them. still got plenty, considering i don’t like dogs (i’m rather a cat person).
      would you like to have some?
      better do as much good as you can and stop cursing like a witch. 2 more witches liked your comment 😦

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    4. Morning Anne,

      What a lovely, well thought out, rational post.
      You are entirely correct that Romania is part of the EU, but even you must see the irony of your statement “You need to get your facts and figures right before spouting your mouth of, you stupid little individual” and “NO you are now in the EU so get your act together and start working within the EU laws” when you consider the following facts and figures.

      Contuary to Parmalat, I think Romania can take lessons from the EU on how to handle stray populations. Let’s examine this further!

      From the source Fritz posted below, which thankfully sums up a whole buch of material I’ve previously posted on the comments section of various article on this blog, you will see that only 1 country out the the 31 surveyed exclusively practices Capture, Neuter, Release, and that would be Greece, which has failed to reduce the stray problem and is classified as having “On-going problems with stray dogs” furthermore “This approach was reported to be problematic because itappeared to result in owners “dumping” their dogs in areas “where they knew they would be lookedafter””.
      Only two other countries (Germany and Italy, prevent the destruction of healthy animals, but these are either re-homed or kenneled for life, not put back onto the streets).

      In 22 countries, the primary method of control was to capture, put them up for claiming/rehoming, and after a set time (median 12 days), put them down.

      So what’s this about facts and EU laws?

      So how can we reduce stray populations? well let’s look at the FACTS again

      “It is important to note that, in countries where registration andlicensing was rigorously enforced, this was considered an essential element in their successful stray dog control practices”
      And as I’ve mentioned in past posts registration, enforcement, licensing and accountability is necessary to reduce populations. 

      Interestingly enough in countries with good stray management neutering is not widely practiced, and does not appear to play a part in management of the stray populations although this may be due to legislation that holds the owner responsible for their animal’s behaviour leading to good animal control (i.e. not free to roam the streets and breed).

      There is no reason why Romania should be guilted into taking part in an ineffective CNR campaign, with enforced licencing, registration, owner responsibility and capture, claim/kill policies we could see the population decrease.
      They are the FACTS.

      I also find your attempts at blaming the victim more than a little disturbing. Does it matter if she was on a street or in a building? or rolled herself up in stake and said come and get me?! Do you blame rape victims for wearing short skirts too? Are they asking for it?
      At the end of the day she was attacked and killed by dogs that had no owner, and were most probably captured, neutered, and released at one point given the amount of dogs which are sporting tags around here. Someone dead not because she was asking for it, but because well meaning, but ultimately deluded individuals such as yourself ignore the facts of stray control, and invent your own rhetoric to support CNR.
      Furthermore, it’s not just the couple of people who are killed that count (they just grab the headlines), but the unmentioned hoard of people who are mauled every day on the streets of Romania. They may live, but will have to suffer the initial pain of the bite, followed by medical care, and both mental and physical scars which will remain with them for the rest of your life.

      So I shall close with another of your remarks

      “as for tourism do you think people will want to come knowing what you are doing i would say think about it but obviously thats a bit beyond you because to think you need at least one brain cell.”

      Considering that all countries in the EU bar 3 (4 including Romania) put down unwanted animals as part of their stray control measures, then rabbiting on about how no tourists will want to visit Romania because they put down dogs is bewildering. 
      Craig may only have one braincell but at least it functions. I fear you on the other hand have more than one braincell, the only problem is they are all inhibitory.

      I’m not even going to touch on Guest’s conspiracy theories which are not backed up considering the ratio of catchers to stray dogs, and the fact that until recently putting unwanted dogs down was illegal.

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      1. have you tried reading so just goes to show you have just decided to join in for no reason what so ever 

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  14. I cannot believe what i am reading you sad sad individual i hope someone comes along and does to you and your family what you are suggesting doing to these animals. 
    Oh i hope you can afford to feed you and your miserable family because i for one would not even give you the crust of my bread. 
    You need to get your facts and figures right before spouting your mouth of, you stupid little individual oh so someone was mauled to death my god can i ask where when and how this happened was it on the streets or was it at a building ??????? oh please let us know seeing as you have all the statistics. Talk about talking out of your arse you must be one sad and lonely  person to have to talk such dribble. Get with the programme and become civilised do you really think all the countries who are watching and reading these things are going to sit back and take it. NO you are now in the EU so get your act together and start working within the EU laws as for tourism do you think people will want to come knowing what you are doing i would say think about it but obviously thats a bit beyond you because to think you need at least one brain cell.    

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    1. Since when does Romania need to take lessons from a bankrupt entity such as the EU or from a criminal one such as the US?!
      We don’t have enough dogs to kill in the entire country to equal how many people the US killed in the last 10 years alone.
      Romania will in the end, considering the economic and cultural decline of the West which is taking place as we speak, follow it’s own path and it’s own judgement.

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      1. why are you going on about USA and if you dont like being in the EU speak to your govenment and send the money back simple aint it 

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      2. You mean TAKE BACK the SIDEX, the PETROM, the BRD, the BCR, the RomTelecom and so on…

        Give back what?! The EU should give back what they’ve stolen. What did the EU give to Romania to compensate for what they’ve stolen?!

        But hey, the EU is a bankrupt entity anyway, not sure if even open frontiers will remain from it 10 years from now.

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    2. We’ve been invaded by the anti-human brigade again. 

      I would suggest, however, that before you start going on about ‘working within EU laws’ you should check what is best and standard practice in the EU when it comes to stray dogs. Take Britain for example (which the last time I checked was still in the EU), where thousands of strays are killed each year. See here: http://www.bucharestlife.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Dogs%20Trust%20Stray%20Dog%20Survey%20Figures%201997-2010.pdf 

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      1. Indeed, Britain is one of the last remaining decent countries in the world, in spite of all trouble others have dragged it into. If Romania is to take any lessons – it should look for Britain to provide inspiration.

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      2. Can we now have Romanian statistics re killing strays but can we have the ones that are done humanly 

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      3. Zero, because up until a couple of months ago it was illegal to humanely euthanise stray dogs thanks to pressure from animal rights groups.
        Just because you make something illegal, it doesn’t mean it’s not going to happen, and when you take tools away from people, they will improvise.

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      4. Anti human brigade?? And who do you think you are Craig Turp?? What is your beef?? In the UK the dogs are not strangled, abused, beaten, shot or murdered! Regardless the shelters feed and give the dogs water! We have micro chipping, and overall the welfare standards are 100% better than what Romania has now! All we are trying to do is get that standard up to ours! What is wrong with that?? Surely it is better for the children of Romania to grow up seeing a country where compassion is there for animals full stop! Not just agricultural animals but the poor stray dogs that end up on the street because of negligent ignorant people who need to be re-educated.
        I am in the process of adopting a Romanian dog! She is NOT ferocious she has never shown any aggression whatsoever!
        Spay and neuter, get rid of the old ways and bring in new and humane methods if need be!!

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      5. Yes you’re right that dogs are not strangled, abused, beaten, shot or murdered in the UK by the authorities (what exactly is the difference between euthanasing a dog and murdering it, oh and shooting is a legitimate method of euthanasia, after all your hamburger was shot, as were your shoes).

        Now why do you think some people take the law into their own hands and kill dogs on the street? Could it be because up until a couple of months ago euthanasia was illegal in Romania, so it was not possible to have a dog humanely put down by a qualified veterinarian?

        “the poor stray dogs that end up on the street because of negligent ignorant people who need to be re-educated.”
        I’m afraid it is you who needs to be re-educated. The dog population on the streets is not due to ignorant people of today (unless you include yourself in that group), but is a population which has grown over the decades thanks to a wild population that was allowed to go unchecked. The vast majority of these animals was born on the streets and will die on the streets. The other group of people letting these animals lose on the streets are those who advocate CNR over a combination of re-homing and euthanasia. Each one of those dogs you see on the street with a tag in it’s ear (and you would be hard pressed to find one without that tag), has been released AFTER capture due to legislation animal welfare groups forced through preventing humane euthanasia as an option.

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      6. The difference is THE PAIN AND SUFFERING THE ANIMAL ENDURES BEFORE IT DIES.
        You really have no idea what is happening in your own country, take of your sunglasses, take out your earplugs, and go and FIND OUT WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON WITH THE STRAY’S OF ROMANIA.

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      7. It’s not my country, and I’m fully aware of the situation here.
        Now could you please tell me which methods of humane euthanasia have been available to the Romanian population over the last couple of year?

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      8. So you know the history but why keep on at people who have the beliefs in life is life! Cows are killed by a captive bolt to the head once that happens they are unconscious and dead! But who is talking about meat?? We are not discussing cattle or meat! It is dogs! A totally different subject!
        I don’t need to be re-educated and I am far from ignorant! You know nothing about me or anyone else on this blog!
        Alot of dogs are tagged to say they have been sterilised but they haven’t due to corruption and greed!

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      9. What’s the difference between a cow and a dog? They are both vertebrates, capable of emotional responses and complex thought. They both share the capacity to express a wide range of emotions such as pain, fear, suffering, happiness, joy etc… Biological speaking there is very little difference between the two.
        The only difference between the two is purely that western society has came to see dogs as cute and lovely, whereas cows have been seen as food. 

        Why is a dog’s life more important than a cow’s outside of your social preconceptions?

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      10. Look you are addressing someone who eats meat! Limited to beef and chicken and pork but yes I eat meat! My first job was in a butcher’s shop and abattoir so I have seen how it is done! Things have changed from 20years ago, the UK has stringent welfare standards regarding animals going to slaughter which is less can be said for other countries (no names will be mentioned for fear of cherry picking accusations)
        Dogs are eaten in China, where they are skinned alive for their furs and eaten! Crammed into crates and cruelly murdered.
        I adore animals no matter what be it cows, dogs, lambs, ducks not so much creepy crawlies but I can tolerate them! I just do NOT agree with cruelty of any kind. Cows are bred for meat, pigs for bacon. I don’t eat lamb as I don’t like seeing them disappear at 3 or 4 months old from the fields, it doesn’t seem right to me but it’s life! And people are entitled to their own desires.
        Life is life but some animals are also bred for food, but they shouldn’t have to endure pain or bad welfare to end up on a dinner plate!

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      11. So now that we’ve established you have no problem killing an animal as long as it’s done humanely, would you be happy if conditions in shelters were drastically improved, captured animals given a period of time in which to be re-homed, and if a home is not found, then humanely euthanised by a licensed veterinarian?
        If not why?

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      12. Shelters should be improved yes! Who wouldn’t agree to that! But this is what is meant to happen anyway. They are meant to be given a chance, they need to spend more money on improvements, advertising the dogs, allowing people to actually go into the shelters to view prospective pets. There is a big difference being humanely euthanized and being beaten to death or shot dead. Euthanasia is a last resort, unless the dog is ill beyond helping, injured beyond helping, at an age where quality of life is lowered drastically, or aggressive. But I thought that was the law anyway.

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      13. “Shelters should be improved yes! Who wouldn’t agree to that! But this is what is meant to happen anyway. They are meant to be given a chance, they need to spend more money on improvements, advertising the dogs, allowing people to actually go into the shelters to view prospective pets.”

        Agreed

        “There is a big difference being humanely euthanized and being beaten to death or shot dead. ”

        Yet again agreed, but remember by making euthanasia illegal people will resort to other methods. Just because something is illegal it won’t stop it from happening (look at drugs and prostitution), and if it’s going to happen I would rather it happened under controlled and safe conditions.

        “Euthanasia is a last resort, unless the dog is ill beyond helping, injured beyond helping, at an age where quality of life is lowered drastically, or aggressive. But I thought that was the law anyway.”
        That is the case, but until recently Euthanasia was illegal for healthy but unwanted animals leading them to be put back on the street, which isn’t dealing with the problem. 
        By giving animals a period of time to be re-homed, before euthanasia takes place frees up room in the kennels for more dogs to be processed, otherwise you end up with full kennels which do not empty, while the stray population continues to grow. Only 3 EU countries don’t euthanaise unwanted animals after a period in which attempts are made to re-home them. I don’t see why Romania has to join the minority.

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      14. Well put. Alas, here is where the latent liberal racism steps in. You see, while in Britain and other places the authorities can be trusted to humanely put dogs down, those nasty little Romanian picaninnies couldn’t possibly do the same.

        You find the same racism when it comes to mining with cyanide and the Rosia Montana issue. When you point out to people that some of the cleanest, most environmentally friendly countries in the world (New Zealand, for example) use cyanide in gold mining, people reply ‘yes, but that’s New Zealand, not Romania. Romanians can’t be trusted with cyanide.’

        Sorry to call a spade a spade, but that’s racism. The liberal version of.

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      15. Stray dog’s are killed in U.K in a HUMANE way, with dignity, and no pain. Stray’s in Romania, are BEATEN, STARVED, HUNG, BURNED ALIVE, AND ANY OTHER SADISTIC MEANS THAT THE BRAINLESS IGNORANT ANIMAL ABUSERS OF ROMANIA CAN INFLICT UPON THEM.
        Is it no wonder that the stray’s bite and attack people as you say, when they are abused on a daily basis. Would you not fight back if you were to endure what they endure everyday of their miserable lives. Kick a dog when it’s down, and IT WILL BITE YOU, AND SO WOULD I YOU MORON. 

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      16. What legal methods of euthanasia were open to Romania over the last couple of year? Please tell me!
         
        BTW “stray’s” should not have an apostrophe. 

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      17. Anon Very brave that you cant even give a name!!! Are we talking about what happens in Romania – a country that needs to get up to speed with the rest of the EU or are we participating in nit picking over somebodies punctuation??? You rant on and call people names we are by no means nut jobs that sit on our behinds in a stray free country! Some people actually live in Romania that fight for the rights of these living and breathing animals!! And the car accidents are often caused by the mindless idiots behind the wheels of the car because they will not stop or slow down for the dogs who stand or walk in the road! Now we can remain neutral and calm about it or we can all kick off!!! You make the choice! You want evidence for what cause?? We have plenty of evidence! There are photos and videos from Youtube that show what goes on in this country! In various shelters the dogs are not fed or given water! The dead dogs bodies rot down and are eaten by starving dogs! Where they end up getting euthanized or battered anyway!! RAA, Asociata Ador, Facebook groups individuals who have their own land take these dogs in! I am a single parent and I have made 100s of pounds in donations to help towards getting dogs the help that they need!! So cut the crappy attitude and get off your high horse!

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      18. “Anon Very brave that you cant even give a name!!! ” 
        Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. My name makes no difference to the points made.

        Now would you care to address the points made in my posts or shout and scream like a baby?

        Why does you being a single parent have anything to do with this? congratulations you had sex and failed to keep a successful relationship with your partner. It’s irrelevant to the discussion
        Although your donations are admirable, “100s (sic) of pounds in donations” is a drop in the water compared to the scale of the problem and has minimal impact.

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      19. OMG!!! have you ever actually taken a look at what you put?? Or are you so far up your rear end you can only see what you type the once??? Who is screaming like a baby? I do not have to answer to you especially someone of very high intelligence but has zero manners or authority to criticize.
        My statement of being a single parent was to answer a question once again put by someone else asking what was being done!! So once again you have stuck your oar in! And how dare you insinuate anything when you know nothing about me my child or anything else!! Pathetic in my opinion that you have to kick off at people for no other reason than to belittle and try to intimidate! How very brave NOT!
        My donations have made a  big impact in allowing dogs to get surgery and to help with the purchase of food and other necessities! So, weirdo stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

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      20. No my reason for “kicking off at people” is when they enter a discussion with name callling, typing all in caps with obviously crap “facts” such as 
        “AND AS FOR USING RAT POISON ANY DOG WOULD HAVE TO EAT ITS OWN BODY WEIGHT IN POISON FOR IT TO HAVE ANY AFFECT! I KNOW THIS FOR A FACT AS I DID PEST CONTROL FOR A COUNCIL IN THE UK!”

        Have you thought to actually answer my original question to you or will you just keep on overusing exclamation marks!!!!!oneeleven!!
        “What legal methods of euthanasia were open to Romania over the last couple of year? Please tell me!”

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      21. I donated too. 20 pounds for some Somali drought relief fund. Whether it’ll be used for a bag of beans or for 20 bullets, I’m confident too that my donation has helped to improve the world.

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    3. except for barking such ugly insults and here in your comment – what have you actually DONE to help the dogs or the people bitten?
      i took 9 strays, took care, called the vet doctor for vaccins, etc, and found home for 4 of them. still got plenty, considering i don’t like dogs (i’m rather a cat person).
      would you like to have some?
      better do as much good as you can and stop cursing like a witch. 2 more witches liked your comment 😦

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    4. Morning Anne,

      What a lovely, well thought out, rational post.
      You are entirely correct that Romania is part of the EU, but even you must see the irony of your statement “You need to get your facts and figures right before spouting your mouth of, you stupid little individual” and “NO you are now in the EU so get your act together and start working within the EU laws” when you consider the following facts and figures.

      Contuary to Parmalat, I think Romania can take lessons from the EU on how to handle stray populations. Let’s examine this further!

      From the source Fritz posted below, which thankfully sums up a whole buch of material I’ve previously posted on the comments section of various article on this blog, you will see that only 1 country out the the 31 surveyed exclusively practices Capture, Neuter, Release, and that would be Greece, which has failed to reduce the stray problem and is classified as having “On-going problems with stray dogs” furthermore “This approach was reported to be problematic because itappeared to result in owners “dumping” their dogs in areas “where they knew they would be lookedafter””.
      Only two other countries (Germany and Italy, prevent the destruction of healthy animals, but these are either re-homed or kenneled for life, not put back onto the streets).

      In 22 countries, the primary method of control was to capture, put them up for claiming/rehoming, and after a set time (median 12 days), put them down.

      So what’s this about facts and EU laws?

      So how can we reduce stray populations? well let’s look at the FACTS again

      “It is important to note that, in countries where registration andlicensing was rigorously enforced, this was considered an essential element in their successful stray dog control practices”
      And as I’ve mentioned in past posts registration, enforcement, licensing and accountability is necessary to reduce populations. 

      Interestingly enough in countries with good stray management neutering is not widely practiced, and does not appear to play a part in management of the stray populations although this may be due to legislation that holds the owner responsible for their animal’s behaviour leading to good animal control (i.e. not free to roam the streets and breed).

      There is no reason why Romania should be guilted into taking part in an ineffective CNR campaign, with enforced licencing, registration, owner responsibility and capture, claim/kill policies we could see the population decrease.
      They are the FACTS.

      I also find your attempts at blaming the victim more than a little disturbing. Does it matter if she was on a street or in a building? or rolled herself up in stake and said come and get me?! Do you blame rape victims for wearing short skirts too? Are they asking for it?
      At the end of the day she was attacked and killed by dogs that had no owner, and were most probably captured, neutered, and released at one point given the amount of dogs which are sporting tags around here. Someone dead not because she was asking for it, but because well meaning, but ultimately deluded individuals such as yourself ignore the facts of stray control, and invent your own rhetoric to support CNR.
      Furthermore, it’s not just the couple of people who are killed that count (they just grab the headlines), but the unmentioned hoard of people who are mauled every day on the streets of Romania. They may live, but will have to suffer the initial pain of the bite, followed by medical care, and both mental and physical scars which will remain with them for the rest of your life.

      So I shall close with another of your remarks

      “as for tourism do you think people will want to come knowing what you are doing i would say think about it but obviously thats a bit beyond you because to think you need at least one brain cell.”

      Considering that all countries in the EU bar 3 (4 including Romania) put down unwanted animals as part of their stray control measures, then rabbiting on about how no tourists will want to visit Romania because they put down dogs is bewildering. 
      Craig may only have one braincell but at least it functions. I fear you on the other hand have more than one braincell, the only problem is they are all inhibitory.

      I’m not even going to touch on Guest’s conspiracy theories which are not backed up considering the ratio of catchers to stray dogs, and the fact that until recently putting unwanted dogs down was illegal.

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      1. have you tried reading so just goes to show you have just decided to join in for no reason what so ever 

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  15. oh how nice it is to see all you lovely people coming forward with your nice comments, it really has made my day.
    As for me not getting my facts right let me see.
    Do other countries kill in the manner Romania kills …. NO…. Its not that they Kill its the WAY they kill
    Do we say to people if you have been bitten by a stray you can get your tetanus free but 
    if you have been bitten by your own dog you have to pay……. let me guess which one human’s are going to go for.
    We are in EU yes we are and we follow their laws.
    ongoing problem ….. well all i can say to this is you have answered your own statement as obviously killing is not working is it.
    Adoption ….. OK yes we adopt if not re homed we put to sleep humanly but at least we try to re home our shelters are open and websites  done to give the dogs a chance …. Romanian shelter 0ne hour and if the worker doesn’t want to let you in then you don’t get in
    CNR Ineffective …… let me see Killing is very effective or why would you still have the problem.
    Woman Mauled to death ….. didn’t say her fault but come on lets have the full story 

    Iona……… What have i done well i am not going to sit and answer that one only to say i have done more than you will ever know 
     

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    1. I’ve been courteous enough to provide sources to my claims. You on the other hand have not. So I ask you to address the following, providing credible source material where appropriate.

      1. Which EU law is Romania breaking, concerning the control of stray animals

      2. Which method of euthanasia are the Romanian authorities using which is so objectionable and that no other countries in the EU are using?

      3. I’ve provided evidence that CNR is not effective. Can you provide published peer reviewed evidence to the contrary?

      4. What full story is there to hear about the Woman being mauled to death? There was a woman killed by dogs that should not be on the street in the first place. How about the Japanese guy who was killed a few years ago?  Blaming the victim is cowardice plain and simple.

      5. Do you accept that stray dogs pose an unacceptable risk to people’s safety in this country, be it from disease, mauling, dog caused car accidents etc…?

      6. If you took the time to read my previous post and the study linked you would see that my criticism of CNR was not an endorsement of killing, but of a more structured initiative, of which euthanasia would inevitably play a part. Yet again if you took the time to read the study you would see that both CNR and culling programs in isolation were ineffective. What did work to control small stray populations was enforced registration, capturing, re-homing within a timespan, and euthanasia. 

      7. Given the person to dog ratio in Romania (remember the problem is not isolated to Bucharest), how do you propose to solve the problem of strays on the street?  How would this be financed? and how would this have a quick, effective impact on the current stray populations. If you plan for re-homing or no kill shelters, how would you finance the number of shelters necessary? or how would you ensure adequate turnover in shelters to ensure they are able to process as many dogs as necessary to have a noticeable effect?

      Finally, don’t be surprised when people react hostility towards you when you come here with insults, barely coherent sentence structure ………. and poorly sourced arguments.

      Ioana also has a good point, what exactly have you done to help? without providing details it’s automatically assumed you’re just another animal rights nut-job, sitting at home all cushty in a stray free city (compared to Romania), dictating how other people should live their lives.

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      1. Ok you have come back with what….. come on tell me please do 

        1) Killing …….. Humanly 

        2) shelters ….. open one hour a day …… Joke 

        3) CNR ……… at least the dogs are not breeding oh an such said dogs are also in the shelters

        4) To say i have a barely coherent sentence structure you don’t seem to have found any problems answering 

        5)Ioana ……. would it matter what i put re what i am doing or done to help …. let me just say i am not sat at a comp dictating how people of Romania should live 

        So please do tell me what have you managed to achieve  

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      2. 1) And which EU law is that covered by? EU-Lex provides free access to all EU legislation…soooo reference your claim please or drop it.

        2) How does “shelters ….. open one hour a day …… Joke ” relate to “Which method of euthanasia are the Romanian authorities using which is so objectionable and that no other countries in the EU are using?”. An answer involving a full sentence would be nice.

        3) “CNR ……… at least the dogs are not breeding oh an such said dogs are also in the shelters” Is not published peer reviewed evidence. In fact the study I referenced was assisted by the RSPCA and the WSPA. They came to the conclusion that SNR was ineffective. Are you saying you know better than them? where’s your data?

        4) You still have not told us what you’re doing to help the situation. Reading comprehension seems to be another of your weaknesses as Ioana has already told you what she’s done to help. As for me, my contribution is that of a professional educator. I’ve done research on behalf of the Environment Agency related to preventing eutrophication, and research related to the conservation of marine ecosystems.

        I asked seven straight forward questions, and not one have you answered in any matter that could be considered satisfactory. 
        As for your sentence structure, in your last post I count two complete sentences (if I’m being generous). Stop trying to use ellipsis, you don’t know how to use them correctly, in fact I’ve marked work from EAL students that shows a better quality of English than you have. If you’re a native speaker you should be ashamed.

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      3. I have been reading your replies anon, and I really believe you are quite naive!!! You seem pretty eduacted even through your very patronising responses, but let me ask you, what do you actually know about the romanian street dogs? Do you live in Romania? And if so, I can only assume you are pestered by the dogs in the evening when they are crying for food, or worse when they are being beaten. The Romanian politicians only have themselves to blame for the number of stray dogs……….. and as I pointed out earlier is very much about the corruption and how stray dogs is a big money making business! Its not all black and white, there are many grey areas!!!

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      4. I live here, and believe me, I’m not woken up by crying dogs, but a chorus of barks (as a dog lover I’m sure you know the difference between crying, fighting, communication and asserting territorial dominance.), the dogs that bark at every car that passes, or run alongside trying to bite the wheels are not crying either.

        Now if you’ve been reading my posts would you care to stop distracting and instead address the points I’ve made. Or do you have nothing to add other than conspiracy theories and emotive arguments?

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      5. 1. Poison is being laid down on the streets for the dogs to eat. That is not by any means a humane way of euthanising any animal. Dog catchers quite often beat the dogs to death out in the fields. I have photo evidence of this!! It states in EU law, as long as humane methods are used and poison is not humane!!!

        2. NGO’s and the public are no longer authorised access into the city shelters. Again I have actual evidence of this! Botosani Shelter for one does not even allow NGO’s in to feed the dogs let alone allow anyone in to adopt one.

        3. Several NGO’s have proven that the stray dog problem in Romania can be solved. In the city of Oradea (210,000 inhabitants) the number of stray dogs has been reduced with 90% in 4 years time by spay/neuter all free roaming dogs and educating the public.

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      6. Thank you guest for a polite and legible response.

        I’ll address your points in turn

        1) Up until a couple of months ago, euthanasia was illegal in Romania as a method of stray population control. So who is laying the poison? Are people taking the law into their own hands?
        I’ve looked but I can’t find anything in EU law relating to euthanasia of animals outside of livestock. Could you please reference the law?
        I think with regards to ‘poison’ being inhumane I cannot agree with you on that matter. To group all poisons as inhumane would be incorrect, yes some are bloody nasty and lead to a slow painful death, but others are approved by Veterinary societies across the world (link in one of my other posts) as being painless and humane (i.e. phenobarbital). Would you have a problem with dogs euthanasied using these humane poisons by a licensed veterinary practitioner? 

        2) With regards to city shelters, what is the reason the govt have given for restricting access? 

        3) I’m pleased that if what you say is true Oradea’s stray population has been successful, but I fear you are committing a variation of the Texas Sharpshooter fallacy which can be summed up as grabbing a machine gun, going wild with it, then grabbing a black marker and drawing a bullseye around a cluster of bullet holes before declaring yourself a master marksman, you can also draw the clustering fallacy and cherry picking into it. In short small victories for CNR methods are not evidence of it’s effectiveness when it’s failed to make a difference on a much larger scale.

        Would you care to read through the study I linked to elsewhere and tell me what, if any problems you have with the conclusions they have drawn with regards to stray management? Look at the methods adopted by the countries deemed to be successful, compared with Greece’s (which is similar to the Romanian method. 

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      7. Anon, at the end of the day we could debate on the stray dog crisis forever. Yes we could copy paste etc to back up our statements but My problem is the way in which Romanians intend on dealing with a problem that was created by them. I live in Scotland and we don’t have a stray dog problem because we are sensible dog owners and there are no kill shelters here. I think that animal welfare is very much like religion, you either believe or you don’t. But if you have ever owned a dog of your own you will know that they are one of the most loyal species on this planet. I hope you can say this for every human being that you know. Because if i’m to be honest alot of the time humans and loyalty don’t always go hand in hand.

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      8. Guest, that’s the problem. 
        I’m from a background in population biology, and have therefore studied issues like these in detail over several years.
        It’s not a religion. Your beliefs will not change reality, and the reality is that for effective long term population management of stray dogs you need several things in place, including enforced registration and licensing, education, neutering, re-homing, and euthanasia. It’s a science.

        Scotland may have some no-kill shelters, but they also operate standard shelters too; the option to euthanasia is there. To campaign for CNR and no euthanasia in Romania is hypocritical at best.
         
        The problem I have is that people are wishing to prevent a method that would work, in favour of their no-kill belief. I’ve not said that Romania should go out and kill every dog in cold blood (the report I’ve linked to several times has said that this would not be effective either), but to remove euthanasia as a method of control while working alongside others is irresponsible. I don’t think anyone here has said “KILL THEM ALL” (except Parmalat, but forgive him, he gets a little excited at times), but you have to recognise that euthanasia is a necessary part of stray management. When you remove that option, you end up with people taking the law into their own hands resulting in crude poisonings, beatings, shooting etc… which will result in unnecessary pain and suffering. 

        You know, I’m an animal lover. Hell since I was a child I was facinated with Wildlife on One, wanted to be a vet, and nagged my parents for years to let me have a cat. I went on to study Biology at university, and have re-homed several animals since moving to Romania. But you know, sometimes the stray problem here just brings you to snapping point. For a period over winter I was sleep deprived after a period of a few months being woken up anytime between 3-5 am by stray dogs barking outside. I’ve hit two dogs while driving along (and I stick to the speed limit at all times) causing damage to my car which has hurt the bank balance considerably (and the sound a dog makes when you hit it stays with you for a long time:( ) and I’ve also known two of my colleges to be attacked since arriving through no fault of their own, other colleges who show scars from being bitten in the past, even my girlfriend has scars from two dog attacks.
        It’s easy to preach when you’re not the one dealing with the problem on a day to day basis, but you must consider that this is a problem that needs to be solved, fast, and CNR is not the answer to this. If you neuter them, they are still on the streets doing what they do. 

        And thank you again for remaining civil.

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      9. I have to disagree with you on a couple of statements that you have made. And this is why.  First being, in order to change a reality you have to believe in what it is that your trying to change, right? If you stop believing then there really is no point in fighting for that cause. Many animal welfare laws have come into place all across the world because NGO’s have fought for what they believe in! Secondly, Scotland for many years now, have no kill shelters. Yes euthanasia is an option when there are health problems, behaviour assessments have failed etc but not because a dog has served its time, there are dogs in city shelters that have been there for years!! Yes, England and Wales have many kill shelters and I myself have pulled dogs when their time is up and they have come to Scotland and successfully been rehomed. 

        I am not against humane euthanasia, I have seen some people in Romania spend hundreds of pounds on dogs that are beyond saving but have tried to give them a chance. Personally, I would do the kindest thing and let them rest in peace. This is because there are many healthy dogs in your country that would and could successfully be rehomed if efforts and finance were focused on them.

        I do think you have some very valid points, and clearly this is something you have researched and take quite seriously, but to promote killing by poison is not the way to do it. 

        The reason I started to pass my comments on this blog is because there were some really silly ideas of how to put the dogs down. I found it quite disgusting some of the suggestions being made, maybe those individuals thought it funny but I take any life very seriously. 

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      10. As far as I can see although Scotland may have some no-kill shelters, they still operate traditional shelters which perform euthanasia on non-medical grounds
        http://content.www.rspca.org.uk/cmsprd/Satellite?blobcol=urldata&blobheader=application%2Fpdf&blobkey=id&blobnocache=false&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobwhere=1232997399246&ssbinary=true
        It’s a bit hypocritical to want to remove a valid option for stray control from Romania when your own country kills perfectly healthy animals ever year no?

        Yes, I have researched the problem well, and spent long enough studying population biology to get more and a little annoyed when groups of well meaning, but overall deluded people hand wave good scientific evidence away, in favour of emotive arguments and pressure to introduce a scheme for animal control that has been shown not to work.

        I’m also a little concerned that an animal welfare group has not taken the time and effort to either pursue the scientific literature on population control, or consulted an expert in the field on the matter to help refine their policies. The irony is that a group which claims to value animal welfare, is partly responsible for further animal suffering by following policies that have been shown not to work. The stay population here is infested with Leptospirosis, which can, and has been spread to humans. It can also lay dormant or be fatal, leading to death by liver and kidney failure. Do you think a life on the street infected with diseases such as Leptospirosis, mange, infested with fleas etc… is a walk in the park?

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      11. you are so right; dogs are loyal to their master. but stray dogs have no master. they sometimes behave not like dogs, but more like wolves. in the summer, less, because of the heat they are lazy and have a nap in the shaddow. in the winter, especially, they become more aggressive. they live in packs – even 15 of them. they are more hungry, more angry, don’t know but looks like they believe that a part of the street is their teritory and if you walk on it they become very bad. of course you can’t know what is the border of their teritory. they even become aggressive to children, which i knew it’s rare. they roam around schools and scare children. children who’s been chased or bitten by dogs like these – will keep a bad impression forever.
        you can build some sort of relationship with the stray dogs from your area – and you’ll be safe; you know them, they know you.
        yet stray dogs can be a serious threat, especially for old people, bikers or children; it’s not an aspect to neglect.

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      12.  How does “shelters ….. open one hour a day …… Joke ” relate to “Which method of euthanasia are the Romanian authorities using which is so objectionable and that no other countries in the EU are using?”. An answer involving a full sentence would be nice.ANSWER ….. KILLING VIA POISON, SHOOTING, STRANGLING,BEATING,STICKING A PITCH FORK INTO A DOG, AND VARIOUS OTHER METHODS 
        as for shelters opening one hour a day how do you think people are going to adopt is they cant get into the shelter  PLEASE DO TELL 
        COMMON SENSE SNR. ……. you kill two dogs and 5 more are born think about it how many pups are produced in a year 
        WHAT AM I DOING TO HELP  OK saved 7 dogs on my last visit, had a meeting with a mayor, had a meeting with a councillor and business men. Adopting two disabled dogs from Romania also helped to home numerous stray Romanian dogs 
        On my next visit will once again be holding meeting.
        So you may do research but you and i both know this is not always accurate especially when it comes to the stray dogs 
        As for insulting the way i put things that is fine by me as i say you don’t seem to have a problem answering.
        Have you thought you maybe an educated person but that does not mean you are clever  

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      13. 5)
        Anne,
        i think it matters both: what you DO but also what you SAY and HOW you say it.your initial comment was surreal; so aggressive – what’s the benefit of that?
        if you want to convince more people to support your cause, i’d suggest you try a different approach: calm, ferm, balanced, express your positive feelings not your frustration. yes, you are involved, and i agree it’s frustrating; but most people will consider you are a bit too involved and crossed on the other side; and will consider you nuts and not take you seriously.
        i didn’t set my mission in life to save dogs; but if it happens that a dog needs help and i’m there, fine, will absolutely do my best. the same i’d do for a fish or a human. what i’ve managed to achieve? i’m actually more in the human brigade, involved in project related to childhood; also concerned about and trying to help poor children from villages.

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      14. Ioana
         maybe it does matter what i have done and also what i say and how i say it, but again which i find a lot is with everyone coming from different countries we pick up sometimes on misunderstanding what people are saying.
        Yes i do get frustrated especially when i receive photo’s and emails and also been there and seen what is happening.
        I think dogs deserve better than what they are getting i also believe things can be changed but it is not  going to happen over night it will take time but it can be done.
        We need people to help to change this their are lots of Romanian people who are doing there best to help these animals but until something positive is done it can not change.
        Romania is a beautiful country and there and the people are very hospitable and i think that the way the animals are being portrayed is a shame for the country.
        I also thank  you in what you are doing  both for the animals and the children can i ask what is entailed in your project related to childhood and also how you are trying to help children from villages, I really am interested Im not the horror that comes across at times i promise  

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      15. i missed your post at the time you wrote it, there were so many.. sure i can tell, even if i’m not comfortable to offer details about other people without their permission, so i will say in general:> childhood project is not mine; i offered to help, as volunteer; it’s long term and for the moment i’m doing what i’m told. it’s regarding the role/importance of playing, learning, games and toys and everything that comes along. as a designer, my special interest is to see if later, i can come up with more intelligent, cheap, useful and peaceful toys/games & playgrounds.> children in the villages: to offer access to books and computer is not always enough. many children have to work in the field with their parents or help looking after animals. parents need stable income. so i started with sharing books and old computers that other people don’t use. but this is logistic and easy. it’s more difficult and time consuming to try to change mentality. NOW, for instance, i try to support a woman with 2 children start up a small business, growing organic chicken, turkeys and rabbits. need to find more clients for her. started in the spring, now there around 300 birds. only one rabbit survived. like her, many other people are willing to work but need to have a solid plan with little risk and some money to start things rolling.i’m not a fairy and i try to keep realistic. i can’t help everybody and can’t change the world. if i do things punctual and personal i see results, even if modest but there is no risk to be frustrated and give up or become furious. i don’t aim for more than i can handle.right now as i write my daughter called, on the way home from the summer camp she found a kitten, black with white paws, next to her dead mother (hit by car). so looks like i need to go and buy milk, we’ll have a guest for dinner.
        why are you interested in childhood project?

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      16. Its just i haven’t heard anyone from Romania mentioning Childhood project before and to be honest i think children are more aware than adults, they are also our future to help make a difference in the way we as adult see things.
        And you are right we cant change the world but as you say one small thing makes a difference and if others do one small thing then that makes a little more of a difference.
        I also think what you are doing is very good and well thought out, I hope everything works out well for the lady you are supporting.
        What sort of toys/games  are you looking at for the children.
        Thank you Ioana  for letting me know I also think it helps when two countries talk and try to understand what is happening.  
        I do hope your guest is behaving and i wish you all the best 

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  16. oh how nice it is to see all you lovely people coming forward with your nice comments, it really has made my day.
    As for me not getting my facts right let me see.
    Do other countries kill in the manner Romania kills …. NO…. Its not that they Kill its the WAY they kill
    Do we say to people if you have been bitten by a stray you can get your tetanus free but 
    if you have been bitten by your own dog you have to pay……. let me guess which one human’s are going to go for.
    We are in EU yes we are and we follow their laws.
    ongoing problem ….. well all i can say to this is you have answered your own statement as obviously killing is not working is it.
    Adoption ….. OK yes we adopt if not re homed we put to sleep humanly but at least we try to re home our shelters are open and websites  done to give the dogs a chance …. Romanian shelter 0ne hour and if the worker doesn’t want to let you in then you don’t get in
    CNR Ineffective …… let me see Killing is very effective or why would you still have the problem.
    Woman Mauled to death ….. didn’t say her fault but come on lets have the full story 

    Iona……… What have i done well i am not going to sit and answer that one only to say i have done more than you will ever know 
     

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    1. I’ve been courteous enough to provide sources to my claims. You on the other hand have not. So I ask you to address the following, providing credible source material where appropriate.

      1. Which EU law is Romania breaking, concerning the control of stray animals

      2. Which method of euthanasia are the Romanian authorities using which is so objectionable and that no other countries in the EU are using?

      3. I’ve provided evidence that CNR is not effective. Can you provide published peer reviewed evidence to the contrary?

      4. What full story is there to hear about the Woman being mauled to death? There was a woman killed by dogs that should not be on the street in the first place. How about the Japanese guy who was killed a few years ago?  Blaming the victim is cowardice plain and simple.

      5. Do you accept that stray dogs pose an unacceptable risk to people’s safety in this country, be it from disease, mauling, dog caused car accidents etc…?

      6. If you took the time to read my previous post and the study linked you would see that my criticism of CNR was not an endorsement of killing, but of a more structured initiative, of which euthanasia would inevitably play a part. Yet again if you took the time to read the study you would see that both CNR and culling programs in isolation were ineffective. What did work to control small stray populations was enforced registration, capturing, re-homing within a timespan, and euthanasia. 

      7. Given the person to dog ratio in Romania (remember the problem is not isolated to Bucharest), how do you propose to solve the problem of strays on the street?  How would this be financed? and how would this have a quick, effective impact on the current stray populations. If you plan for re-homing or no kill shelters, how would you finance the number of shelters necessary? or how would you ensure adequate turnover in shelters to ensure they are able to process as many dogs as necessary to have a noticeable effect?

      Finally, don’t be surprised when people react hostility towards you when you come here with insults, barely coherent sentence structure ………. and poorly sourced arguments.

      Ioana also has a good point, what exactly have you done to help? without providing details it’s automatically assumed you’re just another animal rights nut-job, sitting at home all cushty in a stray free city (compared to Romania), dictating how other people should live their lives.

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      1. Ok you have come back with what….. come on tell me please do 

        1) Killing …….. Humanly 

        2) shelters ….. open one hour a day …… Joke 

        3) CNR ……… at least the dogs are not breeding oh an such said dogs are also in the shelters

        4) To say i have a barely coherent sentence structure you don’t seem to have found any problems answering 

        5)Ioana ……. would it matter what i put re what i am doing or done to help …. let me just say i am not sat at a comp dictating how people of Romania should live 

        So please do tell me what have you managed to achieve  

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      2. 1) And which EU law is that covered by? EU-Lex provides free access to all EU legislation…soooo reference your claim please or drop it.

        2) How does “shelters ….. open one hour a day …… Joke ” relate to “Which method of euthanasia are the Romanian authorities using which is so objectionable and that no other countries in the EU are using?”. An answer involving a full sentence would be nice.

        3) “CNR ……… at least the dogs are not breeding oh an such said dogs are also in the shelters” Is not published peer reviewed evidence. In fact the study I referenced was assisted by the RSPCA and the WSPA. They came to the conclusion that SNR was ineffective. Are you saying you know better than them? where’s your data?

        4) You still have not told us what you’re doing to help the situation. Reading comprehension seems to be another of your weaknesses as Ioana has already told you what she’s done to help. As for me, my contribution is that of a professional educator. I’ve done research on behalf of the Environment Agency related to preventing eutrophication, and research related to the conservation of marine ecosystems.

        I asked seven straight forward questions, and not one have you answered in any matter that could be considered satisfactory. 
        As for your sentence structure, in your last post I count two complete sentences (if I’m being generous). Stop trying to use ellipsis, you don’t know how to use them correctly, in fact I’ve marked work from EAL students that shows a better quality of English than you have. If you’re a native speaker you should be ashamed.

        Like

      3. I have been reading your replies anon, and I really believe you are quite naive!!! You seem pretty eduacted even through your very patronising responses, but let me ask you, what do you actually know about the romanian street dogs? Do you live in Romania? And if so, I can only assume you are pestered by the dogs in the evening when they are crying for food, or worse when they are being beaten. The Romanian politicians only have themselves to blame for the number of stray dogs……….. and as I pointed out earlier is very much about the corruption and how stray dogs is a big money making business! Its not all black and white, there are many grey areas!!!

        Like

      4. I live here, and believe me, I’m not woken up by crying dogs, but a chorus of barks (as a dog lover I’m sure you know the difference between crying, fighting, communication and asserting territorial dominance.), the dogs that bark at every car that passes, or run alongside trying to bite the wheels are not crying either.

        Now if you’ve been reading my posts would you care to stop distracting and instead address the points I’ve made. Or do you have nothing to add other than conspiracy theories and emotive arguments?

        Like

      5. 1. Poison is being laid down on the streets for the dogs to eat. That is not by any means a humane way of euthanising any animal. Dog catchers quite often beat the dogs to death out in the fields. I have photo evidence of this!! It states in EU law, as long as humane methods are used and poison is not humane!!!

        2. NGO’s and the public are no longer authorised access into the city shelters. Again I have actual evidence of this! Botosani Shelter for one does not even allow NGO’s in to feed the dogs let alone allow anyone in to adopt one.

        3. Several NGO’s have proven that the stray dog problem in Romania can be solved. In the city of Oradea (210,000 inhabitants) the number of stray dogs has been reduced with 90% in 4 years time by spay/neuter all free roaming dogs and educating the public.

        Like

      6. Thank you guest for a polite and legible response.

        I’ll address your points in turn

        1) Up until a couple of months ago, euthanasia was illegal in Romania as a method of stray population control. So who is laying the poison? Are people taking the law into their own hands?
        I’ve looked but I can’t find anything in EU law relating to euthanasia of animals outside of livestock. Could you please reference the law?
        I think with regards to ‘poison’ being inhumane I cannot agree with you on that matter. To group all poisons as inhumane would be incorrect, yes some are bloody nasty and lead to a slow painful death, but others are approved by Veterinary societies across the world (link in one of my other posts) as being painless and humane (i.e. phenobarbital). Would you have a problem with dogs euthanasied using these humane poisons by a licensed veterinary practitioner? 

        2) With regards to city shelters, what is the reason the govt have given for restricting access? 

        3) I’m pleased that if what you say is true Oradea’s stray population has been successful, but I fear you are committing a variation of the Texas Sharpshooter fallacy which can be summed up as grabbing a machine gun, going wild with it, then grabbing a black marker and drawing a bullseye around a cluster of bullet holes before declaring yourself a master marksman, you can also draw the clustering fallacy and cherry picking into it. In short small victories for CNR methods are not evidence of it’s effectiveness when it’s failed to make a difference on a much larger scale.

        Would you care to read through the study I linked to elsewhere and tell me what, if any problems you have with the conclusions they have drawn with regards to stray management? Look at the methods adopted by the countries deemed to be successful, compared with Greece’s (which is similar to the Romanian method. 

        Like

      7. Anon, at the end of the day we could debate on the stray dog crisis forever. Yes we could copy paste etc to back up our statements but My problem is the way in which Romanians intend on dealing with a problem that was created by them. I live in Scotland and we don’t have a stray dog problem because we are sensible dog owners and there are no kill shelters here. I think that animal welfare is very much like religion, you either believe or you don’t. But if you have ever owned a dog of your own you will know that they are one of the most loyal species on this planet. I hope you can say this for every human being that you know. Because if i’m to be honest alot of the time humans and loyalty don’t always go hand in hand.

        Like

      8. Guest, that’s the problem. 
        I’m from a background in population biology, and have therefore studied issues like these in detail over several years.
        It’s not a religion. Your beliefs will not change reality, and the reality is that for effective long term population management of stray dogs you need several things in place, including enforced registration and licensing, education, neutering, re-homing, and euthanasia. It’s a science.

        Scotland may have some no-kill shelters, but they also operate standard shelters too; the option to euthanasia is there. To campaign for CNR and no euthanasia in Romania is hypocritical at best.
         
        The problem I have is that people are wishing to prevent a method that would work, in favour of their no-kill belief. I’ve not said that Romania should go out and kill every dog in cold blood (the report I’ve linked to several times has said that this would not be effective either), but to remove euthanasia as a method of control while working alongside others is irresponsible. I don’t think anyone here has said “KILL THEM ALL” (except Parmalat, but forgive him, he gets a little excited at times), but you have to recognise that euthanasia is a necessary part of stray management. When you remove that option, you end up with people taking the law into their own hands resulting in crude poisonings, beatings, shooting etc… which will result in unnecessary pain and suffering. 

        You know, I’m an animal lover. Hell since I was a child I was facinated with Wildlife on One, wanted to be a vet, and nagged my parents for years to let me have a cat. I went on to study Biology at university, and have re-homed several animals since moving to Romania. But you know, sometimes the stray problem here just brings you to snapping point. For a period over winter I was sleep deprived after a period of a few months being woken up anytime between 3-5 am by stray dogs barking outside. I’ve hit two dogs while driving along (and I stick to the speed limit at all times) causing damage to my car which has hurt the bank balance considerably (and the sound a dog makes when you hit it stays with you for a long time:( ) and I’ve also known two of my colleges to be attacked since arriving through no fault of their own, other colleges who show scars from being bitten in the past, even my girlfriend has scars from two dog attacks.
        It’s easy to preach when you’re not the one dealing with the problem on a day to day basis, but you must consider that this is a problem that needs to be solved, fast, and CNR is not the answer to this. If you neuter them, they are still on the streets doing what they do. 

        And thank you again for remaining civil.

        Like

      9. I have to disagree with you on a couple of statements that you have made. And this is why.  First being, in order to change a reality you have to believe in what it is that your trying to change, right? If you stop believing then there really is no point in fighting for that cause. Many animal welfare laws have come into place all across the world because NGO’s have fought for what they believe in! Secondly, Scotland for many years now, have no kill shelters. Yes euthanasia is an option when there are health problems, behaviour assessments have failed etc but not because a dog has served its time, there are dogs in city shelters that have been there for years!! Yes, England and Wales have many kill shelters and I myself have pulled dogs when their time is up and they have come to Scotland and successfully been rehomed. 

        I am not against humane euthanasia, I have seen some people in Romania spend hundreds of pounds on dogs that are beyond saving but have tried to give them a chance. Personally, I would do the kindest thing and let them rest in peace. This is because there are many healthy dogs in your country that would and could successfully be rehomed if efforts and finance were focused on them.

        I do think you have some very valid points, and clearly this is something you have researched and take quite seriously, but to promote killing by poison is not the way to do it. 

        The reason I started to pass my comments on this blog is because there were some really silly ideas of how to put the dogs down. I found it quite disgusting some of the suggestions being made, maybe those individuals thought it funny but I take any life very seriously. 

        Like

      10. As far as I can see although Scotland may have some no-kill shelters, they still operate traditional shelters which perform euthanasia on non-medical grounds
        http://content.www.rspca.org.uk/cmsprd/Satellite?blobcol=urldata&blobheader=application%2Fpdf&blobkey=id&blobnocache=false&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobwhere=1232997399246&ssbinary=true
        It’s a bit hypocritical to want to remove a valid option for stray control from Romania when your own country kills perfectly healthy animals ever year no?

        Yes, I have researched the problem well, and spent long enough studying population biology to get more and a little annoyed when groups of well meaning, but overall deluded people hand wave good scientific evidence away, in favour of emotive arguments and pressure to introduce a scheme for animal control that has been shown not to work.

        I’m also a little concerned that an animal welfare group has not taken the time and effort to either pursue the scientific literature on population control, or consulted an expert in the field on the matter to help refine their policies. The irony is that a group which claims to value animal welfare, is partly responsible for further animal suffering by following policies that have been shown not to work. The stay population here is infested with Leptospirosis, which can, and has been spread to humans. It can also lay dormant or be fatal, leading to death by liver and kidney failure. Do you think a life on the street infected with diseases such as Leptospirosis, mange, infested with fleas etc… is a walk in the park?

        Like

      11. you are so right; dogs are loyal to their master. but stray dogs have no master. they sometimes behave not like dogs, but more like wolves. in the summer, less, because of the heat they are lazy and have a nap in the shaddow. in the winter, especially, they become more aggressive. they live in packs – even 15 of them. they are more hungry, more angry, don’t know but looks like they believe that a part of the street is their teritory and if you walk on it they become very bad. of course you can’t know what is the border of their teritory. they even become aggressive to children, which i knew it’s rare. they roam around schools and scare children. children who’s been chased or bitten by dogs like these – will keep a bad impression forever.
        you can build some sort of relationship with the stray dogs from your area – and you’ll be safe; you know them, they know you.
        yet stray dogs can be a serious threat, especially for old people, bikers or children; it’s not an aspect to neglect.

        Like

      12.  How does “shelters ….. open one hour a day …… Joke ” relate to “Which method of euthanasia are the Romanian authorities using which is so objectionable and that no other countries in the EU are using?”. An answer involving a full sentence would be nice.ANSWER ….. KILLING VIA POISON, SHOOTING, STRANGLING,BEATING,STICKING A PITCH FORK INTO A DOG, AND VARIOUS OTHER METHODS 
        as for shelters opening one hour a day how do you think people are going to adopt is they cant get into the shelter  PLEASE DO TELL 
        COMMON SENSE SNR. ……. you kill two dogs and 5 more are born think about it how many pups are produced in a year 
        WHAT AM I DOING TO HELP  OK saved 7 dogs on my last visit, had a meeting with a mayor, had a meeting with a councillor and business men. Adopting two disabled dogs from Romania also helped to home numerous stray Romanian dogs 
        On my next visit will once again be holding meeting.
        So you may do research but you and i both know this is not always accurate especially when it comes to the stray dogs 
        As for insulting the way i put things that is fine by me as i say you don’t seem to have a problem answering.
        Have you thought you maybe an educated person but that does not mean you are clever  

        Like

      13. 5)
        Anne,
        i think it matters both: what you DO but also what you SAY and HOW you say it.your initial comment was surreal; so aggressive – what’s the benefit of that?
        if you want to convince more people to support your cause, i’d suggest you try a different approach: calm, ferm, balanced, express your positive feelings not your frustration. yes, you are involved, and i agree it’s frustrating; but most people will consider you are a bit too involved and crossed on the other side; and will consider you nuts and not take you seriously.
        i didn’t set my mission in life to save dogs; but if it happens that a dog needs help and i’m there, fine, will absolutely do my best. the same i’d do for a fish or a human. what i’ve managed to achieve? i’m actually more in the human brigade, involved in project related to childhood; also concerned about and trying to help poor children from villages.

        Like

      14. Ioana
         maybe it does matter what i have done and also what i say and how i say it, but again which i find a lot is with everyone coming from different countries we pick up sometimes on misunderstanding what people are saying.
        Yes i do get frustrated especially when i receive photo’s and emails and also been there and seen what is happening.
        I think dogs deserve better than what they are getting i also believe things can be changed but it is not  going to happen over night it will take time but it can be done.
        We need people to help to change this their are lots of Romanian people who are doing there best to help these animals but until something positive is done it can not change.
        Romania is a beautiful country and there and the people are very hospitable and i think that the way the animals are being portrayed is a shame for the country.
        I also thank  you in what you are doing  both for the animals and the children can i ask what is entailed in your project related to childhood and also how you are trying to help children from villages, I really am interested Im not the horror that comes across at times i promise  

        Like

      15. i missed your post at the time you wrote it, there were so many.. sure i can tell, even if i’m not comfortable to offer details about other people without their permission, so i will say in general:> childhood project is not mine; i offered to help, as volunteer; it’s long term and for the moment i’m doing what i’m told. it’s regarding the role/importance of playing, learning, games and toys and everything that comes along. as a designer, my special interest is to see if later, i can come up with more intelligent, cheap, useful and peaceful toys/games & playgrounds.> children in the villages: to offer access to books and computer is not always enough. many children have to work in the field with their parents or help looking after animals. parents need stable income. so i started with sharing books and old computers that other people don’t use. but this is logistic and easy. it’s more difficult and time consuming to try to change mentality. NOW, for instance, i try to support a woman with 2 children start up a small business, growing organic chicken, turkeys and rabbits. need to find more clients for her. started in the spring, now there around 300 birds. only one rabbit survived. like her, many other people are willing to work but need to have a solid plan with little risk and some money to start things rolling.i’m not a fairy and i try to keep realistic. i can’t help everybody and can’t change the world. if i do things punctual and personal i see results, even if modest but there is no risk to be frustrated and give up or become furious. i don’t aim for more than i can handle.right now as i write my daughter called, on the way home from the summer camp she found a kitten, black with white paws, next to her dead mother (hit by car). so looks like i need to go and buy milk, we’ll have a guest for dinner.
        why are you interested in childhood project?

        Like

      16. Its just i haven’t heard anyone from Romania mentioning Childhood project before and to be honest i think children are more aware than adults, they are also our future to help make a difference in the way we as adult see things.
        And you are right we cant change the world but as you say one small thing makes a difference and if others do one small thing then that makes a little more of a difference.
        I also think what you are doing is very good and well thought out, I hope everything works out well for the lady you are supporting.
        What sort of toys/games  are you looking at for the children.
        Thank you Ioana  for letting me know I also think it helps when two countries talk and try to understand what is happening.  
        I do hope your guest is behaving and i wish you all the best 

        Like

  17. Why are the dogs strays in the first place? Because of ‘man’ and the corruption under ceausescu. These loving family pets were thrown on the streets to fend for themselves.

    I find it amazing how generally uncaring this country is. There are though many Romanian’s that rescue, treat medically and re-home these dogs throughout Europe and beyond, but they have been known to have been attacked for nothing but having a good heart as opposed to one made of stone, or poison in some cases. It also known that the ‘dog-killers’ have not spent the funds allowing the dogs to be put to sleep humanely. I won’t put what has happened here, but it is horrific beyond words. Puppies and dogs have even been stolen from rescues and have come to an horrific end, as they have left their remains at the rescue with warnings not to help the dogs. The country’s government is corrupt, plain and simple, and before it’s stated that all countries are, I’m well aware of it, but most do not condone or turn a blind eye to cruelty. Even the majority of stray ‘dog attacks’ have been proven to have been made by a knife. I’m unsure whether the dogs belong to secret underground clubs where they’re trained in Rambo style combat, but very unlikely.

    With the negativity regarding the Romanian strays, I thought you might be interested in this link, where some stray dogs of Romania saved a baby’s life, and it’s not the first time that strays have gone to the aid of humans, no doubt their thanks would be certain death. What a shame that the majority of the species of animals with two legs find it incapable to show the same compassion.

    http://dogsinthenews.com/issues/0105/articles/010510b.htm

    In the words of the great Mahatma Ghandi ‘“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated”, I think that says
    it all really!

    http://dogsinthenews.com/issues/0105/articles/010510b.htm

    Like

    1. “It also known that the ‘dog-killers’ have not spent the funds allowing the dogs to be put to sleep humanely.” 

      I’ve asked this several times, but not received an answer, but what methods have been available to the Romanian population over the last few years to humanely euthanasia a stray animal considering euthanasia was made illegal following campaigns from animal rights groups.

      “Even the majority of stray ‘dog attacks’ have been proven to have been made by a knife.”

      Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. What’s your source for this claim.
      In fact the problem of stray attacks came up in the European Court of Human Rights, which ruled that Romania’s failure to address the stray problem violated a person’s human rights.
      http://sim.law.uu.nl/sim/caselaw/Hof.nsf/233813e697620022c1256864005232b7/9cfc1aa3609bfe63c12578d9004398e8?OpenDocument
      The above contains the press release and notes from the case, as well as the following

      “9,178 people were bitten by stray dogs in Bucharest in the first six months of 2009, including 1,678 children”

      Are you really saying that the majority of these people, including the children knifed themselves and were in fact not bitten by a dog?

      Like

    2. it’s not us who managed to kill all the animals around. still have some bears, wolves, linxs, birds, etc.  you can see deers in the forest 15 km from Bucuresti. Foxes come every night trying to still a hen or so.
      and UK has left only, mmm, let me think: rats?
      compared with the rest of Europe, animals were in Eden here.
      and i’m afraid UK liked Ghandi more after he passed away.

      Like

    3. There were no stray dogs under Ceausescu, who was the founding father of modern Romania. If it weren’t for Ceausescu, Romania would have been similar to Afghanistan.

      We saw nothing from the West exept for critics and lunatic ideas. They say they have 13 billion Euro to give us. But they forget to mention that 3 billion Euro come from the difference which they managed to not pay when buying SIDEX Galati.

      We don’t need the opinion of the West who stole everything from Romania. The West are obliged to pump money over here in exchange for what they’ve stolen. And they’re also obliged to respect the laws of the land and the experience of people who have lived in this territory in the past century.

      Romanians don’t come to the States to tell you how to do things.

      Like

  18. Why are the dogs strays in the first place? Because of ‘man’ and the corruption under ceausescu. These loving family pets were thrown on the streets to fend for themselves.

    I find it amazing how generally uncaring this country is. There are though many Romanian’s that rescue, treat medically and re-home these dogs throughout Europe and beyond, but they have been known to have been attacked for nothing but having a good heart as opposed to one made of stone, or poison in some cases. It also known that the ‘dog-killers’ have not spent the funds allowing the dogs to be put to sleep humanely. I won’t put what has happened here, but it is horrific beyond words. Puppies and dogs have even been stolen from rescues and have come to an horrific end, as they have left their remains at the rescue with warnings not to help the dogs. The country’s government is corrupt, plain and simple, and before it’s stated that all countries are, I’m well aware of it, but most do not condone or turn a blind eye to cruelty. Even the majority of stray ‘dog attacks’ have been proven to have been made by a knife. I’m unsure whether the dogs belong to secret underground clubs where they’re trained in Rambo style combat, but very unlikely.

    With the negativity regarding the Romanian strays, I thought you might be interested in this link, where some stray dogs of Romania saved a baby’s life, and it’s not the first time that strays have gone to the aid of humans, no doubt their thanks would be certain death. What a shame that the majority of the species of animals with two legs find it incapable to show the same compassion.

    http://dogsinthenews.com/issues/0105/articles/010510b.htm

    In the words of the great Mahatma Ghandi ‘“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated”, I think that says
    it all really!

    http://dogsinthenews.com/issues/0105/articles/010510b.htm

    Like

    1. “It also known that the ‘dog-killers’ have not spent the funds allowing the dogs to be put to sleep humanely.” 

      I’ve asked this several times, but not received an answer, but what methods have been available to the Romanian population over the last few years to humanely euthanasia a stray animal considering euthanasia was made illegal following campaigns from animal rights groups.

      “Even the majority of stray ‘dog attacks’ have been proven to have been made by a knife.”

      Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. What’s your source for this claim.
      In fact the problem of stray attacks came up in the European Court of Human Rights, which ruled that Romania’s failure to address the stray problem violated a person’s human rights.
      http://sim.law.uu.nl/sim/caselaw/Hof.nsf/233813e697620022c1256864005232b7/9cfc1aa3609bfe63c12578d9004398e8?OpenDocument
      The above contains the press release and notes from the case, as well as the following

      “9,178 people were bitten by stray dogs in Bucharest in the first six months of 2009, including 1,678 children”

      Are you really saying that the majority of these people, including the children knifed themselves and were in fact not bitten by a dog?

      Like

    2. it’s not us who managed to kill all the animals around. still have some bears, wolves, linxs, birds, etc.  you can see deers in the forest 15 km from Bucuresti. Foxes come every night trying to still a hen or so.
      and UK has left only, mmm, let me think: rats?
      compared with the rest of Europe, animals were in Eden here.
      and i’m afraid UK liked Ghandi more after he passed away.

      Like

    3. There were no stray dogs under Ceausescu, who was the founding father of modern Romania. If it weren’t for Ceausescu, Romania would have been similar to Afghanistan.

      We saw nothing from the West exept for critics and lunatic ideas. They say they have 13 billion Euro to give us. But they forget to mention that 3 billion Euro come from the difference which they managed to not pay when buying SIDEX Galati.

      We don’t need the opinion of the West who stole everything from Romania. The West are obliged to pump money over here in exchange for what they’ve stolen. And they’re also obliged to respect the laws of the land and the experience of people who have lived in this territory in the past century.

      Romanians don’t come to the States to tell you how to do things.

      Like

  19. Dogs maul Romanian woman to deathA woman in the Romanian capital, Bucharest, has died after being mauled by a pack of stray dogs.Earlier this week the 49-year-old was found critically injured in a company compound, and taken to hospital. She underwent major surgery, but doctors were unable to save her life.It is unclear why the woman had visited the compound.Bucharest is home to thousands of stray dogs, which officials say represent a growing danger to humans.An investigation into the incident is under way.

    Like

      1. Occam’s Razor. Look it up sometime. 

        Besides even *if* she was killed by guard dogs, that doesn’t excuse the other 20,000 attacks annually from strays.

        Nice variation on the “she deserved it for wearing that short skirt” theme though.

        Like

      2. Any chance i could have dates and which papers these where posted in 

        Besides even *if* she was killed by guard dogs, that doesn’t excuse the other 20,000 attacks annually from strays.

        Like

      3. Nobody buys guard dogs in Romania, they were just a bunch of strays living close to some buildings whose inhabitants fed them on a regular basis. And they became aggressive and territorial as it happens with all dogs.

        Like

  20. Dogs maul Romanian woman to deathA woman in the Romanian capital, Bucharest, has died after being mauled by a pack of stray dogs.Earlier this week the 49-year-old was found critically injured in a company compound, and taken to hospital. She underwent major surgery, but doctors were unable to save her life.It is unclear why the woman had visited the compound.Bucharest is home to thousands of stray dogs, which officials say represent a growing danger to humans.An investigation into the incident is under way.

    Like

      1. How do we know hmmm so you are saying we have to believe everything that is printed in black and white 

        Like

      2. Occam’s Razor. Look it up sometime. 

        Besides even *if* she was killed by guard dogs, that doesn’t excuse the other 20,000 attacks annually from strays.

        Nice variation on the “she deserved it for wearing that short skirt” theme though.

        Like

      3. Any chance i could have dates and which papers these where posted in 

        Besides even *if* she was killed by guard dogs, that doesn’t excuse the other 20,000 attacks annually from strays.

        Like

      4. Nobody buys guard dogs in Romania, they were just a bunch of strays living close to some buildings whose inhabitants fed them on a regular basis. And they became aggressive and territorial as it happens with all dogs.

        Like

  21. And in case ‘Anon’ you did not catch my reply here it is again. All FACTS!!!

    1. Poison is being laid down on the streets for the dogs to eat. That is not by any means a humane way of euthanising any animal. Dog catchers quite often beat the dogs to death out in the fields. I have photo evidence of this!! It states in EU law, as long as humane methods are used and poison is not humane!!!2. NGO’s and the public are no longer authorised access into the city shelters. Again I have actual evidence of this! Botosani Shelter for one does not even allow NGO’s in to feed the dogs let alone allow anyone in to adopt one.3. Several NGO’s have proven that the stray dog problem in Romania can be solved. In the city of Oradea (210,000 inhabitants) the number of stray dogs has been reduced with 90% in 4 years time by spay/neuter all free roaming dogs and educating the public.

    Like

  22. And in case ‘Anon’ you did not catch my reply here it is again. All FACTS!!!

    1. Poison is being laid down on the streets for the dogs to eat. That is not by any means a humane way of euthanising any animal. Dog catchers quite often beat the dogs to death out in the fields. I have photo evidence of this!! It states in EU law, as long as humane methods are used and poison is not humane!!!2. NGO’s and the public are no longer authorised access into the city shelters. Again I have actual evidence of this! Botosani Shelter for one does not even allow NGO’s in to feed the dogs let alone allow anyone in to adopt one.3. Several NGO’s have proven that the stray dog problem in Romania can be solved. In the city of Oradea (210,000 inhabitants) the number of stray dogs has been reduced with 90% in 4 years time by spay/neuter all free roaming dogs and educating the public.

    Like

  23. “In 2003 there were an estimated 4800 street dogs in the Oradea and
    Bihor area. After just seven years and 18,000 dogs neutered the street
    dog population dropped by 90 per cent to just 512. An incredible number
    of approximately 216,000 unwanted puppies have been prevented.”

    According to MSNBC, local media reports that 60% of Bucharest’s estimated 50,000 stray dogs are currently sterilized.
    Read more: http://www.care2.com/causes/romanian-parliament-moves-to-legalize-euthanizing-stray-dogs.html#ixzz1U0SPvpfa

    Like

    1. There are even free spay and neuter clinics all over Romania! There is no excuses for not getting the dogs sterilized. This is more humane and affective. RAR makes this possible by getting donations and putting this into helping the dogs which is how it should be! They are getting vets from the USA to go to Romania to train up the vets there on how to spay and neuter as they are not skilled surgeons and alot of dogs have not been successfully sterilized and have been injured via untrained vets!
      Aswell as all of the above they have funded transportation for dogs, defleaing and deworming, vaccinations and veterinarian supplies!!
      Their statement is:
      When 80% of the street animals are sterilized, we will have achieved zero population growth.

      Like

      1. All good moves and I have no problem with the above.

        I do have a problem with CNR methods of population control though. They do just not hold scrutiny when evaluated in the scientific literature. 

        By mentioning Oradea  you are cherry picking data to support your preconceptions. Why if CNR has been successful in Oradea has it not worked in the rest of Romania or in Greece? Do you not see the problem with holding Oradea  as a shining beacon of CNR when CNR is not working elsewhere?

        Why are you advocating CNR in favour of methods which have a proven track record such as those mentioned in the RSPCA WSPA paper I’ve linked to elsewhere?

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      2. Because it is my choice to!! I am not cherry picking this is fact! It is happening! This was just a clip I saw and I wanted to include this in the comments!
        CNR is effective end of! How can it not be? And there are clinics doing it for free, so dog owners who have no funds do not have an excuse not to take up offers of it as a  prevention of over breeding! There are too many breeders who use their dogs in their mission to make money once again greed over welfare! This is in the UK and other countries! And it is a fact that these dogs end up in rescue kennels! Or they have genetic faults where greedy owners do not divulge information regarding their dogs problems and you end up with dogs that have breathing problems or their heads dont grow enough to hold their brains so they have fits and end up being put to sleep!

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      3. JP, I’m going to be patient with you because it’s obvious you’re not aware what cherry picking means, and it’s not your fault.

        Let’s imagine you’re playing a game of roulette, and you have an idea that maybe by wiggling your nose at the right moment that you can make the ball hit double zero. You spin the wheel 40 times, and wiggle your nose. Each time it fails to land on double zero.  Disheartened, you have one last spin an wiggle your nose…it lands on double zero and you win all your money back plus more. The next day you go out an boast to your friends that you gamed roulette with your foolproof nose wiggling technique and forget that on 40 spins it didn’t work.

        This is what you’re doing with CNR and Oradea. Saying “It’s works END OF!” doesn’t make it true.

        And again you’re ignoring the conclusions of people who evaluate stuff like this for a living.

        Have you even read this yet? http://goo.gl/pqXKy

        CNR does work in a closed system where there is no addition of dogs to the population. This isn’t the case though, you can neuter every single dog in Bucharest and the population will still increase due to migrating populations from the outskirts and abandonment of unwanted dogs because people know they will be looked after by someone else.

        As for genetic faults…the problem is worse than you may think. Due to the selective breeding of pedigrees such as the Bulldog their ‘genetic faults’ are seen as desirable traits for the breed. You know the bulldog has breathing problems due to the way man has designed them? and that they can’t give birth naturally because their hips are too narrow?

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      4. Not just bulldogs, Pugs, King Charles Spaniels literally all the flat faced dogs. I saw a programme on tv about it all and about the greedy game the dog breeders play.Why do you constantly feel the need to patronize and belittle people is this your kick?Because it is just very immature in my opinion. You seem to get a joy out of trying to pull people to pieces but I’m still sat here aren’t I? And we all think the same of what you are putting as we are discussing it elsewhere. One word springs to mind but I won’t lower myself to expose that.
        What makes you such an expert to assume that the CNR wont ever work?? I read that link and it was very interesting! I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this subject! But what about the person above who is going to list a shop selling rat poison, what are you going to tell him? I’m interested to know!

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      5. Yea, Bulldogs are one example of many, it’s pretty awful and encouraged by the high premium pedigrees fetch and dog shows which reward the owners for these features.

        I didn’t mean to belittle in my last reply. Just to point out a common flaw in your reasoning with a simple example. We are inheritantly irrational beings, and by being aware of the tricks our mind plays we can hope to better understand the world around us. 
        I’m use to the scientific principle where it’s encouraged to pick ideas apart, tossing away the crap and leave the truth remaining. If you’re unable to pick apart an idea, then it’s pretty good, if there are problems, then it’s not a very good idea. 

        I have no ability to predict the future so I can’t say that CNR will never work. But I can say that given the evidence we currently have, CNR is not an effective method of reducing stray populations.

        As for Parmalat, don’t worry about him, he gets over excited at times. I wouldn’t personally use rat poison as I know what it does (although believe me, at times dealing with the mess here I’ve came close to snapping), but I can understand why people take the law into their own hands with no alternatives available. 

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      6. I was just annoyed at your overall attitude hun to be honest! The way you put your points across are just so aggressive.And behaviour breeds behaviour so I’m afraid you will get it back at all costs! 
        I hate the fact that breeders are just greedy. I was a dog warden and we had an ex breeding dog go missing from her new owners parents house, who were looking after it for her whilst she was away. Anyway the dog got out and because it wasn’t used to human contact, it fled. It was found a few miles away and had been run over on a busy main road. See, this is what frustrates me, a poor dog that is used to make money but isn’t used to any human contact whatsoever. There maybe some aggressive dogs in Romania, but in all the videos I have seen with people visiting the shelters when they were allowed into them show healthy dogs with tails wagging and not one shows its teeth or growls nothing. There is bound to be some people getting bitten but dogs defend themselves so I would believe that if the dogs felt threatened they would probably get in first with their teeth. I know I would.
        I try to think about things but when I have read and seen things like the video footage and the photos showing the monsterous dog catchers and how they behave it just gives the drive to go hang on you are wrong and how can you say that if you haven’t seen what I have seen. My friends visited Romania not long ago, and to prove a point of the mindless behaviour of SOME inhabitants, they were trying to persuade a little dog that was stood in the road to go to them. Somebody mowed that poor dog down, never tried to avoid it or stop just ran it over and this is common in the towns, rather than slow down or even stop, they carry on like idiots. And they leave these dogs dead or seriously injured. It beggars belief. This world is a cruel cold place. China leaves a lot to be desired.I just cannot understand the mentality of it all.

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      7. “I was just annoyed at your overall attitude hun to be honest! The way you put your points across are just so aggressive.And behaviour breeds behaviour so I’m afraid you will get it back at all costs! ”

        Indeed, but look at the posts that started all this. When someone (i.e. Anne) comes on saying stuff like “I wish what those dogs go through happens to you” etc… then it sets the tone for the rest of the evening huh? And yes, I get frustrated when I spend a lot of time typing away some well thought out and research points, only to be ignored or hand-waved away. 

        The dogs here go through phases really. Aggressive ones are put down when caught, no questions asked, which is why you saw friendly ones. In the winter when food is short in supply, dogs can become aggressive here and there is a sizeable population which have became more and more feral over the years, roaming in packs, much like wolves with a clear Alpha Male more than anything else, and these are aggressive.
        They also for some reason like chasing cars. Biting at the wheels. I had a dog jump out into the middle of the road to chase my car, and had to swerve to avoid it. I’ve already killed two in driving accidents due to them running out into the road, and that sound is haunting. Nothing I could do though. Scary, and dangerous.

        Remember that what you’re seeing could be classified as propaganda plain and simple. Find the worst examples and put them forward as a representative sample. Peta do it, anti-abortion fundamentalists do it, and some animal right groups here have done it. Pictures and videos can lie. I’m not saying everything is perfect, but a handful of videos selected to prove a point is not representative of the bigger picture. Healthy skepticism is a must when dealing with groups trying to persuade you of something.

        The driving here is odd. Keep in mind that car ownership has only really been a common thing here over the last decade and everyone has a point to prove (back in 2004 only 149 for every 1000 people drove, compared to over 350 in 1000 for the UK). Unlike the drivers in the UK, most people here are  grown adults but behind the wheel they have the mind of a 17 yr old boy racer. Cars are a huge penis extension here. People who bought an Octavia wish they had a Passat and have a point to prove and by driving like cocks they compensate for it. Logan drivers are either old and don’t care, taxi drivers, or complete and utter cocks. if you see a BMW X5 here, then watch the hell out; he owns that road (and the tram tracks). There’s a lot of automotive jealousy here. My car in the UK got the occasional mention, but it wasn’t considered anything special. Here people stare and usually cut jealous/dirty looks.

        Christ I need to sleep. I just did this http://xkcd.com/386/ 😦

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      8. free spay and neuter clinics all over RO? that’s not reality. i can name 3 villages around Bucuresti where the VET asks 50 euro to neuter a dog, while he asks much less to neuter a pig. people are not aware of this “free” option, because in fact it’s not an option. some kill the puppies, some abandon them on the way to Bucuresti, when nobody sees them.
        might be more efficient if volunteers will go from house to house to neuter;
        or at least inform.

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      9. Ioana it is an option! There is a vet that has a mobile unit that travels to villages doing this! It is there in black and white!!!

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      10. Iona, do you even bother to find out which NGO’s are offering a free spay programme?? You are sitting on the internet right now arging about something that you could be dealing with in a humane way. I’m from UK and can point out a fair few NGO’s to you!! But why should I do all the work that you guys have created for yourselves!

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      11. Sir, then maybe you should stop commenting the situation as if it were a football game.
        I will for example tomorrow morning post the web and street address of a store selling rat poison, because I’m convinced it’s the best solution for our problems right now.
        So if you’d be willing to support your ideas with useful information, I personally would appreciate it.

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      12. Ioana why are you so rude?? We don’t pretend to care we genuinely do care or we wouldn’t be here arguing the toss. Look up Romania Animal Aid! There is an American lady associated with it all! She is a lovely lady who has helped a huge amount of dogs!

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      13. thanks, i didn’t want to be rude, i had the impression GUEST is just teasing saying he (she) knows the NGO but won’t tell.
        and if i am skeptical is because i tried to contact organizations on facebook, when i had 9 dogs in my yard at the same time !!! and i was desperate.
        to cut story short: i wasn’t so lucky to see nice promises come true
        people talk with such passion, but if i tell i know a stray old dog who is old, sick and his fur is falling apart – how many will move a finger? will find excuses.

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      14. Ioana it is all genuine but people are very cautious now because there are so many people that post fake pictures and make out they are desperate to receive donations that turns out to be a huge con. I think that it has happened alot. I know in our group we have a group  chip in and it gets split. I have donated to 3 puppies who are all disabled and will require a wheelchair. They have all been injured or were born that way. They are adorable little things and the videos show them as full of life, they are just beautiful and their souls reach out to you.
        I know what you are saying about the older dogs, but they deserve a decent quality of life as much as any other dog. There are alot of people willing to help others that are taking in the dogs, its all on Facebook are you on there??

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      15. aha. makes sense to be cautious; yet is strange – because i offered donation / not asked for money. anyway; in the end had a strategy: my very beautiful and irresistible daughter made a poster drawing the dog and the headline “let me be your best friend” and this melted a few hearts. who can resist to a child & puppy & poster? i’m not on facebook; but i’ll look for that Animal Aid you mentioned.

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      16. Perhaps she does help people, perhaps she doesn’t. I for one do work voluntary with animals and humans. Also my employment is working with humans. I care for and support vulnerable people. So I guess that would make me within my rights to support animal welfare. I agree that many people forget that humans are also subjected to an awful life through no fault of their own and at times it can seem there is a lack of support certainly in some countries, Romania being one of them. But at the end of the day it does not give humans the right to abuse animals!!!

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      17. Ok, then you are entitled to prove a point in regard to animals abuse and I’m willing to listen.

        But coming here as Brigitte Bardot did – to care about animals only in a time when humans are the ones in greater need – that’s an act of snobism, nobody from over here will take it seriously.

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      18. why would she want to help your people, cant they help themselves, like i said earlier what kind of people are you breeding there, if they need caring for

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      19. un less they are disabled or have a bad life. dont you have charities to help them. my post above was aimed at people wanting money, or needing it, as you never said what kind of help you were referring to

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      20. There is little to no social security. If you’re disabled you’re pretty much on your own. There’s a former teacher I see every now and again begging on the street with an obvious case of Parkinson’s disease because he can’t simply sign onto the dole, or get free prescriptions on the NHS to relieve his symptoms.

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      21. well start a charity up then. dont just sit on your arses complaining about the state of your country and the fact there is no help for ill or disabled people. if eveyone took that attitude nothing would have ever got done, there would have been no charities or anything. dont just shout do something constructive to help the things that need changing in your country that you feel compassionate  about, find simple solutions to help, without brutally murdering. if you dont do it, why expect someone else to do it for you, you start something going

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      22. the kind of people that the West had stolen all resources from. insurgency is become more of an option and Abu Mus’ab al-Zarqawi is becoming more of a model. i’m gonna go watch his videos again, to catch his technique.

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      23. Why don’t you leave your rose garden and actually spend some time in Romania before asking why people can’t help themselves.
        If you overcame your xenophobia enough to spend a week or so here you would see homeless children begging on the streets, people who have no home, education, or prospects for a comfortable life, and you would also see rampant prostitution as girls use the only resource they have in order to try and survive.
        30 seconds on google found http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3665646.stm. Try and educate yourself before spurting your bullshit, you only make yourself look silly.

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      24. there is homeless people everywhere in the world, whats so damn special about your country. at the end of the day its up to your government to sort that problem too. again the use of sterilization cuts down the human population too, unwanted children, parents cant afford to look after.you might want to ask your government what it does with all the money it has and what it is doing for your country. not a fat lot by the look of things. ive seen countries in poverty so no i dont wear rose coloured glasses. i dont understand why you the people and your government dont try and sort a reasonable solution to the problems without brutally murdering anyone or any animal. if you are so compassionate about your country and the people in it, think of ways to improve it , instead of thinking murder is the answer. and no after what you do to animals i wouldnt want to come visit your country , i wouldnt even come if you paid me to. i would end up killing people if i came

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      25. Iona, I do actually work in animal welfare and yes I do care!! My point is that there are many romanians complaining about the stray dog population, but what are you doing about it yourself? Romanian Animal Rescue have spent thousands on neutering your dogs for free! They have brought vets from all over to participate in this programme and awareness has been made to NGO’s. http://www.romaniaanimalrescue.com/index.php/news/newsletter/archive/208-march-2011

        Perhaps you should check out the attached link, you might be surprised!!

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      26. Which is all very well, but do you not understand that you are carrying out a service nobody wants! People are not interested in dogs being neutered and then released back on to the streets. People simply want them off the streets.

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      27. And I get what your saying, however, the romanians that choose to become pet owners can be very irresponsible and help to add to the number of unwanted litters and often put them on the street because they can’t rehome or can’t afford to feed them. Romanians must have their dogs neutered asap to prevent this from happening. Also, I see often the case of the older dog gets put out and replaced by a cute new puppy! Again, these dogs are often not neutered and the problem is mating and having litters of puppies adding to the number of stray dogs! NGO’s can do so much but really it comes down to responsible ownership of their pet. And that’s where the authorities have to step in and offer a solution. There could be a mass cull of dogs but I guarantee you it would not be long before the numbers started to increase. Please try tell me otherwise.

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      28. Again, let me say that all I want is the dogs off the streets. Whatever method achieves that fastest gets my support. 

        Here is a thing: why don’t all the dog-loving NGOs in Romania (there must be over 100 now, if not over 1000) pool resources and form one organisation to deal with the problem once and for all.Alas we all know why that will never happen…

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      29. And why won’t that happen?? Like I pointed out, why should everyone else have to clear up other peoples errors? Romanians have to learn what it is to be a responsible pet owner. If they don’t then I’m afraid the problem with the strays will persist.

        Perhaps you should make a blog on ‘How to become a responsible pet owner in Romania’ then you might all stop banging on about the very thing that has been created by yourselves. 

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      30. This I agree with: forbid Romanians from owning dogs unless they can prove that they have enough money to care for them. Why would they need a dog in the first place, cats are 10x more fun 😀

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      31. fun, cats , thats a laugh. oh i know why you like cats so much , cause they are evil and kill things like you do

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      32. i do love animals. not very keen on cats , but would never hurt them , big difference, and would try to help if one needed it

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      33. And don’t you consider that to be normal? I mean you’re the ones complaining about our methods, then if you’re complaining it’s absolutely normal to step in and do it your way.

        But if you can’t (and there’s a god damn reason for which you can’t – nobody will throw around with money for cutting balls of stray dogs) then maybe you should allow us to do it our way.

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      34. cause our way actually works. and guess what!, its not going to kill the dogs. you ways sick , which just goes to show the uneducated people that do this and cant or wont see another way to do things that will help save the animals. maybe you should try sterilizing some of your people too, if the likes of you are anything to go by

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      35. It’s amusing that you use the word uneducated in the same sentence as advocating a method of population control that has been shown time and time again to be a failure, while at the same time ignoring research (by educated people, one’s who have spent the best part of a decade in university) which details methods which are effective.

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      36. again only in your country is it a failure, because you are un educated to do the job properly in the first place, instead you wait to you have a major dog over population and then think , we have problem, instead of thinking like when the problem started to sort it out. and the way you are handling things now and the responses you give you are just a bunch of low life, un educated , poor excuse of the human being. you the ones that need shooting, clean up the world act, kill the human scum and leave the animals and descent people alone

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      37. Maybe Basescu should talk to the IMF to give Romania a loan for neutering dogs?!

        People don’t have what to eat in this country and we’re talking about neutering hundreds of thousands of dogs?! C’mon man, get back on planet Earth…

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      38. Then why don’t they advertise so we can see them?! I also have some ideas to make 1 billion $ but hey, nobody notices them.

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      39. well ask your government why they dont advertise it . its a bit bad when someone tthat lives in the uk has to tell you what is going on in your own country , dont you think. maybe if you opened your eyes and stopped to think and find out about the real things going on there then you would have already known about it. you are too busy going off what your references are saying instead of the reality around you

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      40. no , your the one who sees things out of your own backside. the reality is your country is murdering dogs in a manner i would not even treat my worst enemy, like you treat them dogs. i hope those involved in this slaughter rot in hell for it. its the other countries that have to go round clearing the mess up people like your country make. if you did thinks properly in the first place you wouldnt have this problem

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      41. they actually get money from Europe for the well-being of the animals , so that would pay for the sterilization of both male and female dogs

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      42. really? how much? which agency is it distributed to? 
        The EU publish all allocation of funds from the European Development fund, and Social Development Funds so I would expect you to have no problem telling me exactly how much money has been allocated to ‘the well-being of the animals’, and where it’s supposed to be.

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      43. its given to your government. obviously your government is spending it on other things if it aint going on the animals, in which case i will get on to Europe and tell them, maybe then your government will have a choice , use it for the purpose of what it is given or loose it . surprised they havent chuck your country out of Europe for your behaviour towards living things

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      44. “obviously your government is spending it on other things if it aint going on the animals”

        obviously a sprout of decent thinking from our government

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  24. “In 2003 there were an estimated 4800 street dogs in the Oradea and
    Bihor area. After just seven years and 18,000 dogs neutered the street
    dog population dropped by 90 per cent to just 512. An incredible number
    of approximately 216,000 unwanted puppies have been prevented.”

    According to MSNBC, local media reports that 60% of Bucharest’s estimated 50,000 stray dogs are currently sterilized.
    Read more: http://www.care2.com/causes/romanian-parliament-moves-to-legalize-euthanizing-stray-dogs.html#ixzz1U0SPvpfa

    Like

    1. There are even free spay and neuter clinics all over Romania! There is no excuses for not getting the dogs sterilized. This is more humane and affective. RAR makes this possible by getting donations and putting this into helping the dogs which is how it should be! They are getting vets from the USA to go to Romania to train up the vets there on how to spay and neuter as they are not skilled surgeons and alot of dogs have not been successfully sterilized and have been injured via untrained vets!
      Aswell as all of the above they have funded transportation for dogs, defleaing and deworming, vaccinations and veterinarian supplies!!
      Their statement is:
      When 80% of the street animals are sterilized, we will have achieved zero population growth.

      Like

      1. All good moves and I have no problem with the above.

        I do have a problem with CNR methods of population control though. They do just not hold scrutiny when evaluated in the scientific literature. 

        By mentioning Oradea  you are cherry picking data to support your preconceptions. Why if CNR has been successful in Oradea has it not worked in the rest of Romania or in Greece? Do you not see the problem with holding Oradea  as a shining beacon of CNR when CNR is not working elsewhere?

        Why are you advocating CNR in favour of methods which have a proven track record such as those mentioned in the RSPCA WSPA paper I’ve linked to elsewhere?

        Like

      2. Because it is my choice to!! I am not cherry picking this is fact! It is happening! This was just a clip I saw and I wanted to include this in the comments!
        CNR is effective end of! How can it not be? And there are clinics doing it for free, so dog owners who have no funds do not have an excuse not to take up offers of it as a  prevention of over breeding! There are too many breeders who use their dogs in their mission to make money once again greed over welfare! This is in the UK and other countries! And it is a fact that these dogs end up in rescue kennels! Or they have genetic faults where greedy owners do not divulge information regarding their dogs problems and you end up with dogs that have breathing problems or their heads dont grow enough to hold their brains so they have fits and end up being put to sleep!

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      3. JP, I’m going to be patient with you because it’s obvious you’re not aware what cherry picking means, and it’s not your fault.

        Let’s imagine you’re playing a game of roulette, and you have an idea that maybe by wiggling your nose at the right moment that you can make the ball hit double zero. You spin the wheel 40 times, and wiggle your nose. Each time it fails to land on double zero.  Disheartened, you have one last spin an wiggle your nose…it lands on double zero and you win all your money back plus more. The next day you go out an boast to your friends that you gamed roulette with your foolproof nose wiggling technique and forget that on 40 spins it didn’t work.

        This is what you’re doing with CNR and Oradea. Saying “It’s works END OF!” doesn’t make it true.

        And again you’re ignoring the conclusions of people who evaluate stuff like this for a living.
        http://www.fao.org/fileadmin/user_upload/animalwelfare/WSPA_RSPCA%20International%20stray%20control%20practices%20in%20Europe%202006_2007.pdf
        Have you even read this yet?

        CNR does work in a closed system where there is no addition of dogs to the population. This isn’t the case though, you can neuter every single dog in Bucharest and the population will still increase due to migrating populations from the outskirts and abandonment of unwanted dogs because people know they will be looked after by someone else.

        As for genetic faults…the problem is worse than you may think. Due to the selective breeding of pedigrees such as the Bulldog their ‘genetic faults’ are seen as desirable traits for the breed. You know the bulldog has breathing problems due to the way man has designed them? and that they can’t give birth naturally because their hips are too narrow?

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      4. Not just bulldogs, Pugs, King Charles Spaniels literally all the flat faced dogs. I saw a programme on tv about it all and about the greedy game the dog breeders play.Why do you constantly feel the need to patronize and belittle people is this your kick?Because it is just very immature in my opinion. You seem to get a joy out of trying to pull people to pieces but I’m still sat here aren’t I? And we all think the same of what you are putting as we are discussing it elsewhere. One word springs to mind but I won’t lower myself to expose that.
        What makes you such an expert to assume that the CNR wont ever work?? I read that link and it was very interesting! I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this subject! But what about the person above who is going to list a shop selling rat poison, what are you going to tell him? I’m interested to know!

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      5. Yea, Bulldogs are one example of many, it’s pretty awful and encouraged by the high premium pedigrees fetch and dog shows which reward the owners for these features.

        I didn’t mean to belittle in my last reply. Just to point out a common flaw in your reasoning with a simple example. We are inheritantly irrational beings, and by being aware of the tricks our mind plays we can hope to better understand the world around us. 
        I’m use to the scientific principle where it’s encouraged to pick ideas apart, tossing away the crap and leave the truth remaining. If you’re unable to pick apart an idea, then it’s pretty good, if there are problems, then it’s not a very good idea. 

        I have no ability to predict the future so I can’t say that CNR will never work. But I can say that given the evidence we currently have, CNR is not an effective method of reducing stray populations.

        As for Parmalat, don’t worry about him, he gets over excited at times. I wouldn’t personally use rat poison as I know what it does (although believe me, at times dealing with the mess here I’ve came close to snapping), but I can understand why people take the law into their own hands with no alternatives available. 

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      6. I was just annoyed at your overall attitude hun to be honest! The way you put your points across are just so aggressive.And behaviour breeds behaviour so I’m afraid you will get it back at all costs! 
        I hate the fact that breeders are just greedy. I was a dog warden and we had an ex breeding dog go missing from her new owners parents house, who were looking after it for her whilst she was away. Anyway the dog got out and because it wasn’t used to human contact, it fled. It was found a few miles away and had been run over on a busy main road. See, this is what frustrates me, a poor dog that is used to make money but isn’t used to any human contact whatsoever. There maybe some aggressive dogs in Romania, but in all the videos I have seen with people visiting the shelters when they were allowed into them show healthy dogs with tails wagging and not one shows its teeth or growls nothing. There is bound to be some people getting bitten but dogs defend themselves so I would believe that if the dogs felt threatened they would probably get in first with their teeth. I know I would.
        I try to think about things but when I have read and seen things like the video footage and the photos showing the monsterous dog catchers and how they behave it just gives the drive to go hang on you are wrong and how can you say that if you haven’t seen what I have seen. My friends visited Romania not long ago, and to prove a point of the mindless behaviour of SOME inhabitants, they were trying to persuade a little dog that was stood in the road to go to them. Somebody mowed that poor dog down, never tried to avoid it or stop just ran it over and this is common in the towns, rather than slow down or even stop, they carry on like idiots. And they leave these dogs dead or seriously injured. It beggars belief. This world is a cruel cold place. China leaves a lot to be desired.I just cannot understand the mentality of it all.

        Like

      7. “I was just annoyed at your overall attitude hun to be honest! The way you put your points across are just so aggressive.And behaviour breeds behaviour so I’m afraid you will get it back at all costs! ”

        Indeed, but look at the posts that started all this. When someone (i.e. Anne) comes on saying stuff like “I wish what those dogs go through happens to you” etc… then it sets the tone for the rest of the evening huh? And yes, I get frustrated when I spend a lot of time typing away some well thought out and research points, only to be ignored or hand-waved away. 

        The dogs here go through phases really. Aggressive ones are put down when caught, no questions asked, which is why you saw friendly ones. In the winter when food is short in supply, dogs can become aggressive here and there is a sizeable population which have became more and more feral over the years, roaming in packs, much like wolves with a clear Alpha Male more than anything else, and these are aggressive.
        They also for some reason like chasing cars. Biting at the wheels. I had a dog jump out into the middle of the road to chase my car, and had to swerve to avoid it. I’ve already killed two in driving accidents due to them running out into the road, and that sound is haunting. Nothing I could do though. Scary, and dangerous.

        Remember that what you’re seeing could be classified as propaganda plain and simple. Find the worst examples and put them forward as a representative sample. Peta do it, anti-abortion fundamentalists do it, and some animal right groups here have done it. Pictures and videos can lie. I’m not saying everything is perfect, but a handful of videos selected to prove a point is not representative of the bigger picture. Healthy skepticism is a must when dealing with groups trying to persuade you of something.

        The driving here is odd. Keep in mind that car ownership has only really been a common thing here over the last decade and everyone has a point to prove (back in 2004 only 149 for every 1000 people drove, compared to over 350 in 1000 for the UK). Unlike the drivers in the UK, most people here are  grown adults but behind the wheel they have the mind of a 17 yr old boy racer. Cars are a huge penis extension here. People who bought an Octavia wish they had a Passat and have a point to prove and by driving like cocks they compensate for it. Logan drivers are either old and don’t care, taxi drivers, or complete and utter cocks. if you see a BMW X5 here, then watch the hell out; he owns that road (and the tram tracks). There’s a lot of automotive jealousy here. My car in the UK got the occasional mention, but it wasn’t considered anything special. Here people stare and usually cut jealous/dirty looks.

        Christ I need to sleep. I just did this http://xkcd.com/386/ 😦

        Like

      8. free spay and neuter clinics all over RO? that’s not reality. i can name 3 villages around Bucuresti where the VET asks 50 euro to neuter a dog, while he asks much less to neuter a pig. people are not aware of this “free” option, because in fact it’s not an option. some kill the puppies, some abandon them on the way to Bucuresti, when nobody sees them.
        might be more efficient if volunteers will go from house to house to neuter;
        or at least inform.

        Like

      9. Ioana it is an option! There is a vet that has a mobile unit that travels to villages doing this! It is there in black and white!!!

        Like

      10. Iona, do you even bother to find out which NGO’s are offering a free spay programme?? You are sitting on the internet right now arging about something that you could be dealing with in a humane way. I’m from UK and can point out a fair few NGO’s to you!! But why should I do all the work that you guys have created for yourselves!

        Like

      11. Sir, then maybe you should stop commenting the situation as if it were a football game.
        I will for example tomorrow morning post the web and street address of a store selling rat poison, because I’m convinced it’s the best solution for our problems right now.
        So if you’d be willing to support your ideas with useful information, I personally would appreciate it.

        Like

      12. Ioana why are you so rude?? We don’t pretend to care we genuinely do care or we wouldn’t be here arguing the toss. Look up Romania Animal Aid! There is an American lady associated with it all! She is a lovely lady who has helped a huge amount of dogs!

        Like

      13. thanks, i didn’t want to be rude, i had the impression GUEST is just teasing saying he (she) knows the NGO but won’t tell.
        and if i am skeptical is because i tried to contact organizations on facebook, when i had 9 dogs in my yard at the same time !!! and i was desperate.
        to cut story short: i wasn’t so lucky to see nice promises come true
        people talk with such passion, but if i tell i know a stray old dog who is old, sick and his fur is falling apart – how many will move a finger? will find excuses.

        Like

      14. Ioana it is all genuine but people are very cautious now because there are so many people that post fake pictures and make out they are desperate to receive donations that turns out to be a huge con. I think that it has happened alot. I know in our group we have a group  chip in and it gets split. I have donated to 3 puppies who are all disabled and will require a wheelchair. They have all been injured or were born that way. They are adorable little things and the videos show them as full of life, they are just beautiful and their souls reach out to you.
        I know what you are saying about the older dogs, but they deserve a decent quality of life as much as any other dog. There are alot of people willing to help others that are taking in the dogs, its all on Facebook are you on there??

        Like

      15. aha. makes sense to be cautious; yet is strange – because i offered donation / not asked for money. anyway; in the end had a strategy: my very beautiful and irresistible daughter made a poster drawing the dog and the headline “let me be your best friend” and this melted a few hearts. who can resist to a child & puppy & poster? i’m not on facebook; but i’ll look for that Animal Aid you mentioned.

        Like

      16. Perhaps she does help people, perhaps she doesn’t. I for one do work voluntary with animals and humans. Also my employment is working with humans. I care for and support vulnerable people. So I guess that would make me within my rights to support animal welfare. I agree that many people forget that humans are also subjected to an awful life through no fault of their own and at times it can seem there is a lack of support certainly in some countries, Romania being one of them. But at the end of the day it does not give humans the right to abuse animals!!!

        Like

      17. Ok, then you are entitled to prove a point in regard to animals abuse and I’m willing to listen.

        But coming here as Brigitte Bardot did – to care about animals only in a time when humans are the ones in greater need – that’s an act of snobism, nobody from over here will take it seriously.

        Like

      18. why would she want to help your people, cant they help themselves, like i said earlier what kind of people are you breeding there, if they need caring for

        Like

      19. un less they are disabled or have a bad life. dont you have charities to help them. my post above was aimed at people wanting money, or needing it, as you never said what kind of help you were referring to

        Like

      20. There is little to no social security. If you’re disabled you’re pretty much on your own. There’s a former teacher I see every now and again begging on the street with an obvious case of Parkinson’s disease because he can’t simply sign onto the dole, or get free prescriptions on the NHS to relieve his symptoms.

        Like

      21. well start a charity up then. dont just sit on your arses complaining about the state of your country and the fact there is no help for ill or disabled people. if eveyone took that attitude nothing would have ever got done, there would have been no charities or anything. dont just shout do something constructive to help the things that need changing in your country that you feel compassionate  about, find simple solutions to help, without brutally murdering. if you dont do it, why expect someone else to do it for you, you start something going

        Like

      22. the kind of people that the West had stolen all resources from. insurgency is become more of an option and Abu Mus’ab al-Zarqawi is becoming more of a model. i’m gonna go watch his videos again, to catch his technique.

        Like

      23. Why don’t you leave your rose garden and actually spend some time in Romania before asking why people can’t help themselves.
        If you overcame your xenophobia enough to spend a week or so here you would see homeless children begging on the streets, people who have no home, education, or prospects for a comfortable life, and you would also see rampant prostitution as girls use the only resource they have in order to try and survive.
        30 seconds on google found http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3665646.stm. Try and educate yourself before spurting your bullshit, you only make yourself look silly.

        Like

      24. there is homeless people everywhere in the world, whats so damn special about your country. at the end of the day its up to your government to sort that problem too. again the use of sterilization cuts down the human population too, unwanted children, parents cant afford to look after.you might want to ask your government what it does with all the money it has and what it is doing for your country. not a fat lot by the look of things. ive seen countries in poverty so no i dont wear rose coloured glasses. i dont understand why you the people and your government dont try and sort a reasonable solution to the problems without brutally murdering anyone or any animal. if you are so compassionate about your country and the people in it, think of ways to improve it , instead of thinking murder is the answer. and no after what you do to animals i wouldnt want to come visit your country , i wouldnt even come if you paid me to. i would end up killing people if i came

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      25. Iona, I do actually work in animal welfare and yes I do care!! My point is that there are many romanians complaining about the stray dog population, but what are you doing about it yourself? Romanian Animal Rescue have spent thousands on neutering your dogs for free! They have brought vets from all over to participate in this programme and awareness has been made to NGO’s. http://www.romaniaanimalrescue.com/index.php/news/newsletter/archive/208-march-2011

        Perhaps you should check out the attached link, you might be surprised!!

        Like

      26. Which is all very well, but do you not understand that you are carrying out a service nobody wants! People are not interested in dogs being neutered and then released back on to the streets. People simply want them off the streets.

        Like

      27. And I get what your saying, however, the romanians that choose to become pet owners can be very irresponsible and help to add to the number of unwanted litters and often put them on the street because they can’t rehome or can’t afford to feed them. Romanians must have their dogs neutered asap to prevent this from happening. Also, I see often the case of the older dog gets put out and replaced by a cute new puppy! Again, these dogs are often not neutered and the problem is mating and having litters of puppies adding to the number of stray dogs! NGO’s can do so much but really it comes down to responsible ownership of their pet. And that’s where the authorities have to step in and offer a solution. There could be a mass cull of dogs but I guarantee you it would not be long before the numbers started to increase. Please try tell me otherwise.

        Like

      28. Again, let me say that all I want is the dogs off the streets. Whatever method achieves that fastest gets my support. 

        Here is a thing: why don’t all the dog-loving NGOs in Romania (there must be over 100 now, if not over 1000) pool resources and form one organisation to deal with the problem once and for all.Alas we all know why that will never happen…

        Like

      29. And why won’t that happen?? Like I pointed out, why should everyone else have to clear up other peoples errors? Romanians have to learn what it is to be a responsible pet owner. If they don’t then I’m afraid the problem with the strays will persist.

        Perhaps you should make a blog on ‘How to become a responsible pet owner in Romania’ then you might all stop banging on about the very thing that has been created by yourselves. 

        Like

      30. This I agree with: forbid Romanians from owning dogs unless they can prove that they have enough money to care for them. Why would they need a dog in the first place, cats are 10x more fun 😀

        Like

      31. And don’t you consider that to be normal? I mean you’re the ones complaining about our methods, then if you’re complaining it’s absolutely normal to step in and do it your way.

        But if you can’t (and there’s a god damn reason for which you can’t – nobody will throw around with money for cutting balls of stray dogs) then maybe you should allow us to do it our way.

        Like

      32. cause our way actually works. and guess what!, its not going to kill the dogs. you ways sick , which just goes to show the uneducated people that do this and cant or wont see another way to do things that will help save the animals. maybe you should try sterilizing some of your people too, if the likes of you are anything to go by

        Like

      33. It’s amusing that you use the word uneducated in the same sentence as advocating a method of population control that has been shown time and time again to be a failure, while at the same time ignoring research (by educated people, one’s who have spent the best part of a decade in university) which details methods which are effective.

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      34. again only in your country is it a failure, because you are un educated to do the job properly in the first place, instead you wait to you have a major dog over population and then think , we have problem, instead of thinking like when the problem started to sort it out. and the way you are handling things now and the responses you give you are just a bunch of low life, un educated , poor excuse of the human being. you the ones that need shooting, clean up the world act, kill the human scum and leave the animals and descent people alone

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      35. Maybe Basescu should talk to the IMF to give Romania a loan for neutering dogs?!

        People don’t have what to eat in this country and we’re talking about neutering hundreds of thousands of dogs?! C’mon man, get back on planet Earth…

        Like

      36. Then why don’t they advertise so we can see them?! I also have some ideas to make 1 billion $ but hey, nobody notices them.

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      37. well ask your government why they dont advertise it . its a bit bad when someone tthat lives in the uk has to tell you what is going on in your own country , dont you think. maybe if you opened your eyes and stopped to think and find out about the real things going on there then you would have already known about it. you are too busy going off what your references are saying instead of the reality around you

        Like

      38. no , your the one who sees things out of your own backside. the reality is your country is murdering dogs in a manner i would not even treat my worst enemy, like you treat them dogs. i hope those involved in this slaughter rot in hell for it. its the other countries that have to go round clearing the mess up people like your country make. if you did thinks properly in the first place you wouldnt have this problem

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      39. they actually get money from Europe for the well-being of the animals , so that would pay for the sterilization of both male and female dogs

        Like

      40. really? how much? which agency is it distributed to? 
        The EU publish all allocation of funds from the European Development fund, and Social Development Funds so I would expect you to have no problem telling me exactly how much money has been allocated to ‘the well-being of the animals’, and where it’s supposed to be.

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      41. its given to your government. obviously your government is spending it on other things if it aint going on the animals, in which case i will get on to Europe and tell them, maybe then your government will have a choice , use it for the purpose of what it is given or loose it . surprised they havent chuck your country out of Europe for your behaviour towards living things

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      42. “obviously your government is spending it on other things if it aint going on the animals”

        obviously a sprout of decent thinking from our government

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      1. What does this have to to with stray population control? If conditions are bad in the shelters then they need to be addressed but this has nothing to do with controlling the stray population. Although maybe if they were allowed to euthanaise the dogs, they wouldn’t have to put up with such horrible conditions.

        Like

      2. it was done during 2006 – 2007 but it was intended to
        update an existing study of dog population control practices across Europe conducted by RSPCA International, in 1999 : ) (sorry should of said before AM)

        Like

      3. There is a difference with wouldn’t and shouldn’t! The dogs shouldn’t have to endure the bad conditions in which they find themselves! They are in better condition living on the streets, at least there would be some access to water or food that is left by some kind people! Again my dog to be Sasha was fed twice a day by a lady to and from her job! The shelters should not be allowed to operate in this way! There should be fresh water and food for those dogs no matter what!

        Like

      4. Why don’t you take them to your streets in NYC if they’re in better condition living on the streets?!
        We THE PEOPLE are not in better condition with dogs living on the streets.

        Like

      5. Indeed, maybe I should have mentioned DC.

        Anyway, I’m mentioning it because it’s usually the main source of people who refuse to see reality.

        Why don’t you ask them to stop the killings in Afghanistan instead of losing so much energy to defend stray dogs? The world has bigger problems. Stray dogs are a minor problem compared to others and there’s no reason to displace so many arguments and resources in order to handle it; the chosen solution in this matter also has to be the most simple.

        If we’d concentrate on feeding the people who have nothing to eat in this country then indeed our time would be well spent.

        Like

      6. Who mentioned New York?? Parmalat you don’t speak for the entire country just a small minority that has a sick sense of dealing with dogs that are a part of life and its you THE PEOPLE who dumped the dogs on the streets in the first place!! We THE NICE PEOPLE are the ones paying for it all via taxes and the corrupt government are squandering the money elsewhere!

        Like

      7. the dogs have as much right to be on the streets as people do.at the end of the day animals were here first. and the way these countries are treating the dogs, im not surprised that they are attacking back. they are treated badly, are hungry and if you treat an animal with respect then there is a better chance of the animal treating people with respect. if i hit my dogs, then i would expect them to bite me. simply. in America , one of the states as allowed for the stray dogs and cats to live there without any interfering from humans. if you are so bothered about he large population try sterilizing the animals, whether pets or strays. it really does work. if the strays were taken off the streets and sterilized and then put back on the streets then they would not only stop the breeding but both male and female dogs would calm down and not be so aggressive. these dogs are only acting out in self defence and because they are scared from what ive seen then they have every right to act as they do. this country whats to start thinking how they would like to be treated if they were that dog and then start applying it to these dogs

        Like

      8. “the dogs have as much right to be on the streets as people do”

        why don’t you take them all to your America and kiss them in the mouth if you love them so much.

        how can you say such a big ineptitude?! your country kills hundreds of thousands of people and then i hear that dogs have the same rights on the streets as people do. no sir, America has to disappear economically and maybe even physically before they manage to ruin the planet for good. you’ve lost your common sense.

        Like

      9. i dont live in a america, actually and if they were in my country , they would get fed and sterilized and would not be treated like in your bloody country and there would not be the fuss made about it and the dogs would have no need to bite

        Like

      10. if you don’t live in America you may say whatever you want, at least you don’t kill people. of course – in spite of what you say, we’re probably gonna do whatever WE want over here in Romania…

        Like

      11. Here we go again and some people wonder why I lose patients.

        1) The animals were here first? really? that’s you’re rational and well thought out argument?

        2) More blaming the victim for being bitten. I suppose when a woman gets raped it’s because she was asking for it too right?

        3) No sterilisation does not work. I’ve given plenty of references to studies performed by professionals, backed up with hard, solid data to that end, as well as examples of programs that have worked. Repeating a lie will not make it true.

        Like

      12. well it works perfectly well in the rest of the world, why should it not work there, or are you lot so incompetent as to make it work.
        and big difference between someone getting raped and someone getting bitten
        your references talk out of there back sides , as do you, you are just making excuses so you can justify dogs being treated like your country does
        your country doesnt deserve animals

        Like

      13. As I’ve shown elsewhere in this discussion, a comprehensive report written with the help of the RSPCA and WSPC (The RSPCA talk out of their backsides? really? do you even think about what you write?) detailing population control in Europe shows that only one country (Greece) practices CNR methods, and has failed to keep numbers under control. 
        5 of the 8 countries classified as having successful programs with little or no strays on the street do NOT have high uptakes of neutering and it appears to be the case that neutering plays a minor role in the controlling of stray populations.
        Although if you took the time to read the rest of this discussion, or actually do some academic research you would know this already.

        And for your information, MY country is the UK where dogs are euthanaised after a set period if they cannot be re-homed just like in the majority of EU countries.

        Like

      14. ‘The dogs have as much right to be on the streets as people do.’

        No, they do not. Human cities, built by humans, for humans and for whatever other species we decide to share them with.

        And another thing… Why do I never see any dogs carrying ‘Don’t kill the dogs’ placards? If I ever did (or if I came across a group of dogs discussing the issue online) I might start to feel differently about their ‘rights.’

        Like

    1. The camera never lies so nobody can say that this isn’t happening in the shelters!! And some have seen it with their own eyes too!

      Like

      1. What does this have to to with stray population control? If conditions are bad in the shelters then they need to be addressed but this has nothing to do with controlling the stray population. Although maybe if they were allowed to euthanaise the dogs, they wouldn’t have to put up with such horrible conditions.

        Like

      2. it was done during 2006 – 2007 but it was intended to
        update an existing study of dog population control practices across Europe conducted by RSPCA International, in 1999 : ) (sorry should of said before AM)

        Like

      3. There is a difference with wouldn’t and shouldn’t! The dogs shouldn’t have to endure the bad conditions in which they find themselves! They are in better condition living on the streets, at least there would be some access to water or food that is left by some kind people! Again my dog to be Sasha was fed twice a day by a lady to and from her job! The shelters should not be allowed to operate in this way! There should be fresh water and food for those dogs no matter what!

        Like

      4. Why don’t you take them to your streets in NYC if they’re in better condition living on the streets?!
        We THE PEOPLE are not in better condition with dogs living on the streets.

        Like

      5. Indeed, maybe I should have mentioned DC.

        Anyway, I’m mentioning it because it’s usually the main source of people who refuse to see reality.

        Why don’t you ask them to stop the killings in Afghanistan instead of losing so much energy to defend stray dogs? The world has bigger problems. Stray dogs are a minor problem compared to others and there’s no reason to displace so many arguments and resources in order to handle it; the chosen solution in this matter also has to be the most simple.

        If we’d concentrate on feeding the people who have nothing to eat in this country then indeed our time would be well spent.

        Like

      6. Who mentioned New York?? Parmalat you don’t speak for the entire country just a small minority that has a sick sense of dealing with dogs that are a part of life and its you THE PEOPLE who dumped the dogs on the streets in the first place!! We THE NICE PEOPLE are the ones paying for it all via taxes and the corrupt government are squandering the money elsewhere!

        Like

      7. the dogs have as much right to be on the streets as people do.at the end of the day animals were here first. and the way these countries are treating the dogs, im not surprised that they are attacking back. they are treated badly, are hungry and if you treat an animal with respect then there is a better chance of the animal treating people with respect. if i hit my dogs, then i would expect them to bite me. simply. in America , one of the states as allowed for the stray dogs and cats to live there without any interfering from humans. if you are so bothered about he large population try sterilizing the animals, whether pets or strays. it really does work. if the strays were taken off the streets and sterilized and then put back on the streets then they would not only stop the breeding but both male and female dogs would calm down and not be so aggressive. these dogs are only acting out in self defence and because they are scared from what ive seen then they have every right to act as they do. this country whats to start thinking how they would like to be treated if they were that dog and then start applying it to these dogs

        Like

      8. “the dogs have as much right to be on the streets as people do”

        why don’t you take them all to your America and kiss them in the mouth if you love them so much.

        how can you say such a big ineptitude?! your country kills hundreds of thousands of people and then i hear that dogs have the same rights on the streets as people do. no sir, America has to disappear economically and maybe even physically before they manage to ruin the planet for good. you’ve lost your common sense.

        Like

      9. i dont live in a america, actually and if they were in my country , they would get fed and sterilized and would not be treated like in your bloody country and there would not be the fuss made about it and the dogs would have no need to bite

        Like

      10. if you don’t live in America you may say whatever you want, at least you don’t kill people. of course – in spite of what you say, we’re probably gonna do whatever WE want over here in Romania…

        Like

      11. Here we go again and some people wonder why I lose patients.

        1) The animals were here first? really? that’s you’re rational and well thought out argument?

        2) More blaming the victim for being bitten. I suppose when a woman gets raped it’s because she was asking for it too right?

        3) No sterilisation does not work. I’ve given plenty of references to studies performed by professionals, backed up with hard, solid data to that end, as well as examples of programs that have worked. Repeating a lie will not make it true.

        Like

      12. well it works perfectly well in the rest of the world, why should it not work there, or are you lot so incompetent as to make it work.
        and big difference between someone getting raped and someone getting bitten
        your references talk out of there back sides , as do you, you are just making excuses so you can justify dogs being treated like your country does
        your country doesnt deserve animals

        Like

      13. As I’ve shown elsewhere in this discussion, a comprehensive report written with the help of the RSPCA and WSPC (The RSPCA talk out of their backsides? really? do you even think about what you write?) detailing population control in Europe shows that only one country (Greece) practices CNR methods, and has failed to keep numbers under control. 
        5 of the 8 countries classified as having successful programs with little or no strays on the street do NOT have high uptakes of neutering and it appears to be the case that neutering plays a minor role in the controlling of stray populations.
        Although if you took the time to read the rest of this discussion, or actually do some academic research you would know this already.

        And for your information, MY country is the UK where dogs are euthanaised after a set period if they cannot be re-homed just like in the majority of EU countries.

        Like

      14. ‘The dogs have as much right to be on the streets as people do.’

        No, they do not. Human cities, built by humans, for humans and for whatever other species we decide to share them with.

        And another thing… Why do I never see any dogs carrying ‘Don’t kill the dogs’ placards? If I ever did (or if I came across a group of dogs discussing the issue online) I might start to feel differently about their ‘rights.’

        Like

    1. The camera never lies so nobody can say that this isn’t happening in the shelters!! And some have seen it with their own eyes too!

      Like

  25. This is taken from the questionnaire done during Winter 2006 – 2007
    In countries where dog registration and licensing were rigorously enforced it was considered by respondents to be an essential element in successful stray control practices. • Despite compulsory registration and licensing in 70% (N=22) of countries, in 48% (N=15) of countries
    animal owners were not compliant and the authorities did not enforce the regulations. So if the authorites don’t enforce the new legislation they only have themselves to blame!! Microchipping and licensing should be made compulsory!
    Stray cats were more likely to be reported to be culled than stray dogs. So they cover up the issue of stray dogs being culled then??
    This is applied to stray cats so should be also applied to stray dogs too:
    From information provided by case study countries – successful stray control appears to be related to a number of elements: comprehensive, effective and enforced legislation, registration and licensing, control of breeding and sale, environmental management, owner education and good cooperation between authorities and animal welfare groups. No mention of euthanasia here.
    Conversely, at the other end of the scale, unwanted dogs; dogs, whose
    owners have revoked all care giving responsibilities, may, if they survive for long enough, be able to reproduce and rear young. Though this generation of dogs may be considered to be genuinely ownerless and in some instances feral, their survival rates are invariably low and their reproductive success is likely to be poor. They are therefore not considered to be the main source of overpopulation. Somewhere between the two examples, dogs may be cared for by one or more members of a community, allowed to roam and permitted to reproduce. Nevertheless, they are genuinely dependent upon human caregivers, as they provide access to the resources essential for their survival. The reproduction rates of these dogs and their rearing success has the potential to be
    high because care given by humans offers the necessary protection for puppy survival (c.f.  International Companion Animal Management Coalition, 2007 for characterisation of dogs in terms of their ownership status, p: 5).
    In summary, feral dogs, those that are truly independent of human care givers are rarely
    considered to be salient contributors to the problem of strays.
    1.3. The need for control
    It is important to develop long-term, sustainable strategies to deal effectively with stray animal populations. This is essential not only to protect humans from coming into contact with those animals but to protect the health and welfare of the animals themselves. Experience shows that effective control involves the adoption of more than one approach (WHO/WSPA, 1990; International Companion Animal Management Coalition, 2007). In Western societies, where the concept of “ownership” predominates, it requires a comprehensive, coordinated and progressive programme of owner education, environmental management, compulsory registration and identification, controlled
    reproduction of pets and the prevention of over production of pets through regulated breeding and selling. All of these elements should be underpinned by effective and enforced legislation. To implement these elements successfully requires the involvement of more than one agency; and in turn is dependent upon the willingness of government departments, municipalities, veterinary agencies and non government organisations (NGO’s) to work together.
    3.2. LEGISLATION
    Twenty-seven (87%) of the countries surveyed, have legislation that covers animal welfare and the protection of animals, including prohibiting animal cruelty (Table 5). Belarus reported that this was at the municipal level only; therefore variation existed in the inception of legislation between regions.
    One country (Bosnia-Herzegovina) reported that animal welfare was addressed in veterinary legislation and thus limited in scope to the regulation of veterinary procedures, although new national legislation is being enabled. Three countries; Albania, Armenia and Azerbaijan Republic had no specific legislation designed to safeguard animal welfare. Similarly, these countries lacked additional regulations to control pet ownership, stray collection or the breeding and sale of pets.Consequently, these countries reported poor stray control; typified by measures such as municipal contracted culls, which involved the shooting of strays. Member societies in these three countries reported that this approach had little or no impact on their increasing stray population.

    Microchipping, licensing, and spay and neuter is the way forwards!!! Interesting read!

    Like

    1. I’m glad you’ve taken the time to start reading that report. I too was surprised when it appeared that registration and licensing played such a major part in control (I especially like (I think it was Switzerland?) the example of an annual tax, which increased the more dogs you owned, in order to help pay for welfare.

      Allow me to point out though that only one of the countries mentioned exclusively practices CNR (Greece, which is a failure), and only two others (Germany and Italy) do not kill animals, instead they remain in kennels for life or until re-homed. All the other countries will euthanaise after a set period of time if a home is not found.

      Also if you look at the table on page 34, you will see the charactistics of countries that appear to have solved the stray problem

      “Dogs are caught and housed in shortterm holding facilities to allow dog identification and reclamation by the owner.Longer term re-homing of strays through a system of animal shelters.With the exception of Germany, unclaimed strays can be euthanised if they cannot be homed i.e. they are not kennelled for life.Good cooperation between AWO’s and municipal authorities.”
      “Exception of Switzerland; no subsidised neutering programmes for owners;however in Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, and Germany dogs are notroutinely neutered – owners are responsible for good control of their dogspreventing uncontrolled breeding.All countries have established owner education programmes operating atregional level.”

      5 of the 8 countries with no stray problems do not neuter routinely.

      The problem I have is that models for successful programs exist, we should be emulating the programs of Sweden, Norway, Denmark etc…, not ignoring the data and plodding away with the failed Albanian “KILL THEM ALL” or Greek CNR methods. 

      Like

      1. Agreed! It is interesting! But in Denmark they have a disgusting law that makes it ok for people to rape dogs! There is no law to prevent it! And in Turkey too. This is just sick so if they can bring the laws in for licensing dogs why can they not put this law in that it is illegal for any animal rape.
        I am going to read some more of that document I have saved it so I can look at it again. I have to go to bed as it is 2am here! There used to be a dog licensing law in the UK but it got phased out! I think micro chipping is a good idea, it is standard requirement for any dog to come into the UK and from January 2012 the quarantine will be dropped from 6 months to 3 weeks. My dog is in Germany doing her quarantine in a foster home. They take good care of their pets.

        Like

      2. And to answer your question from January 2008 it was illegal to euthanize any animal other than one that was ill or aggressive. But they kept doing it regardless!!
        It is a serious case of violation of our current Law on animal protection (no. 9 adopted in 2008) which
        clearly states in article no. 71 that: „It is forbidden to euthanize dogs, cats or other animals, unless they are sick with
        incurable diseases established by a veterinary

        Like

      3. Indeed some vets were continuing euthanasia, and I see no problem with this provided 
        a) They were given a period of time in which to be re-homed
        b) They were euthanaised in a humane manner.

        It’s pretty much standard practice in other EU countries (bar three).

        That law has since been overturned too.

        Like

      4. A quick google shows that a man was fined for having sex with a dog in 2009 over there. I think it’s covered by generic animal welfare laws, and not spelled out specifically, much like how necrophilia was technically legal in California until some clown got caught and they beat him with a whole bunch of charges and amended the law to spell it out for everyone else.

        It’s concerning that much like our system of government, stray control seems to be a haphazard affair in the UK, compared to others. (and fuck their draconian quarantine laws) even with the Pet Passport there are still a whole bunch of hoops to jump through. It’s not good enough to give the pet a worming tablet, it must be administered by a vet no longer than 24 hours before entering the country. On the flip side, I was not stopped at any border crossing or asked for my cat’s passport when driving from the UK to Romania.

        Please do read through the rest of that document and absorb it. I hope it opens your eyes to the current state of evidence on population control. Your heart may be in the right place, but CNR schemes are just not the answer to the problem. With refined objectives, and scientific, not emotive arguments then maybe you can make a difference. 

        I’d recommend Bad Science  by Ben Goldacre, and Irrationality by Stewart Sutherland as good reads for giving you a crash course on the scientific method, statistics and flaws in every day thinking.

        Like

      5. Thanks for that. Being a Mother doesn’t make for everyday thinking! You give birth to your brain when you have a child. It got so bad I was putting things in the washing machine instead of the fridge. Or I would go into the kitchen and forget what I went in for. lol The Joys of Motherhood. Right I must go or it will be 7am and I will still be sat here.

        Like

      6. ‘instead they remain in kennels for life or until re-homed.’

        Which is fine. Like most people, I would be happy to avoid a mass killing of dogs if kennels/homes could be found for them. I do not want them dead at any cost: I simply want them all off the streets.

        Alas there is a minority of people in Bucharest who think that the dogs have every right to live on the streets and that the city is a better place for them.

        Like

  26. This is taken from the questionnaire done during Winter 2006 – 2007
    In countries where dog registration and licensing were rigorously enforced it was considered by respondents to be an essential element in successful stray control practices. • Despite compulsory registration and licensing in 70% (N=22) of countries, in 48% (N=15) of countries
    animal owners were not compliant and the authorities did not enforce the regulations. So if the authorites don’t enforce the new legislation they only have themselves to blame!! Microchipping and licensing should be made compulsory!
    Stray cats were more likely to be reported to be culled than stray dogs. So they cover up the issue of stray dogs being culled then??
    This is applied to stray cats so should be also applied to stray dogs too:
    From information provided by case study countries – successful stray control appears to be related to a number of elements: comprehensive, effective and enforced legislation, registration and licensing, control of breeding and sale, environmental management, owner education and good cooperation between authorities and animal welfare groups. No mention of euthanasia here.
    Conversely, at the other end of the scale, unwanted dogs; dogs, whose
    owners have revoked all care giving responsibilities, may, if they survive for long enough, be able to reproduce and rear young. Though this generation of dogs may be considered to be genuinely ownerless and in some instances feral, their survival rates are invariably low and their reproductive success is likely to be poor. They are therefore not considered to be the main source of overpopulation. Somewhere between the two examples, dogs may be cared for by one or more members of a community, allowed to roam and permitted to reproduce. Nevertheless, they are genuinely dependent upon human caregivers, as they provide access to the resources essential for their survival. The reproduction rates of these dogs and their rearing success has the potential to be
    high because care given by humans offers the necessary protection for puppy survival (c.f.  International Companion Animal Management Coalition, 2007 for characterisation of dogs in terms of their ownership status, p: 5).
    In summary, feral dogs, those that are truly independent of human care givers are rarely
    considered to be salient contributors to the problem of strays.
    1.3. The need for control
    It is important to develop long-term, sustainable strategies to deal effectively with stray animal populations. This is essential not only to protect humans from coming into contact with those animals but to protect the health and welfare of the animals themselves. Experience shows that effective control involves the adoption of more than one approach (WHO/WSPA, 1990; International Companion Animal Management Coalition, 2007). In Western societies, where the concept of “ownership” predominates, it requires a comprehensive, coordinated and progressive programme of owner education, environmental management, compulsory registration and identification, controlled
    reproduction of pets and the prevention of over production of pets through regulated breeding and selling. All of these elements should be underpinned by effective and enforced legislation. To implement these elements successfully requires the involvement of more than one agency; and in turn is dependent upon the willingness of government departments, municipalities, veterinary agencies and non government organisations (NGO’s) to work together.
    3.2. LEGISLATION
    Twenty-seven (87%) of the countries surveyed, have legislation that covers animal welfare and the protection of animals, including prohibiting animal cruelty (Table 5). Belarus reported that this was at the municipal level only; therefore variation existed in the inception of legislation between regions.
    One country (Bosnia-Herzegovina) reported that animal welfare was addressed in veterinary legislation and thus limited in scope to the regulation of veterinary procedures, although new national legislation is being enabled. Three countries; Albania, Armenia and Azerbaijan Republic had no specific legislation designed to safeguard animal welfare. Similarly, these countries lacked additional regulations to control pet ownership, stray collection or the breeding and sale of pets.Consequently, these countries reported poor stray control; typified by measures such as municipal contracted culls, which involved the shooting of strays. Member societies in these three countries reported that this approach had little or no impact on their increasing stray population.

    Microchipping, licensing, and spay and neuter is the way forwards!!! Interesting read!

    Like

    1. I’m glad you’ve taken the time to start reading that report. I too was surprised when it appeared that registration and licensing played such a major part in control (I especially like (I think it was Switzerland?) the example of an annual tax, which increased the more dogs you owned, in order to help pay for welfare.

      Allow me to point out though that only one of the countries mentioned exclusively practices CNR (Greece, which is a failure), and only two others (Germany and Italy) do not kill animals, instead they remain in kennels for life or until re-homed. All the other countries will euthanaise after a set period of time if a home is not found.

      Also if you look at the table on page 34, you will see the charactistics of countries that appear to have solved the stray problem

      “Dogs are caught and housed in shortterm holding facilities to allow dog identification and reclamation by the owner.Longer term re-homing of strays through a system of animal shelters.With the exception of Germany, unclaimed strays can be euthanised if they cannot be homed i.e. they are not kennelled for life.Good cooperation between AWO’s and municipal authorities.”
      “Exception of Switzerland; no subsidised neutering programmes for owners;however in Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, and Germany dogs are notroutinely neutered – owners are responsible for good control of their dogspreventing uncontrolled breeding.All countries have established owner education programmes operating atregional level.”

      5 of the 8 countries with no stray problems do not neuter routinely.

      The problem I have is that models for successful programs exist, we should be emulating the programs of Sweden, Norway, Denmark etc…, not ignoring the data and plodding away with the failed Albanian “KILL THEM ALL” or Greek CNR methods. 

      Like

      1. Agreed! It is interesting! But in Denmark they have a disgusting law that makes it ok for people to rape dogs! There is no law to prevent it! And in Turkey too. This is just sick so if they can bring the laws in for licensing dogs why can they not put this law in that it is illegal for any animal rape.
        I am going to read some more of that document I have saved it so I can look at it again. I have to go to bed as it is 2am here! There used to be a dog licensing law in the UK but it got phased out! I think micro chipping is a good idea, it is standard requirement for any dog to come into the UK and from January 2012 the quarantine will be dropped from 6 months to 3 weeks. My dog is in Germany doing her quarantine in a foster home. They take good care of their pets.

        Like

      2. And to answer your question from January 2008 it was illegal to euthanize any animal other than one that was ill or aggressive. But they kept doing it regardless!!
        It is a serious case of violation of our current Law on animal protection (no. 9 adopted in 2008) which
        clearly states in article no. 71 that: „It is forbidden to euthanize dogs, cats or other animals, unless they are sick with
        incurable diseases established by a veterinary

        Like

      3. Indeed some vets were continuing euthanasia, and I see no problem with this provided 
        a) They were given a period of time in which to be re-homed
        b) They were euthanaised in a humane manner.

        It’s pretty much standard practice in other EU countries (bar three).

        That law has since been overturned too.

        Like

      4. A quick google shows that a man was fined for having sex with a dog in 2009 over there. I think it’s covered by generic animal welfare laws, and not spelled out specifically, much like how necrophilia was technically legal in California until some clown got caught and they beat him with a whole bunch of charges and amended the law to spell it out for everyone else.

        It’s concerning that much like our system of government, stray control seems to be a haphazard affair in the UK, compared to others. (and fuck their draconian quarantine laws) even with the Pet Passport there are still a whole bunch of hoops to jump through. It’s not good enough to give the pet a worming tablet, it must be administered by a vet no longer than 24 hours before entering the country. On the flip side, I was not stopped at any border crossing or asked for my cat’s passport when driving from the UK to Romania.

        Please do read through the rest of that document and absorb it. I hope it opens your eyes to the current state of evidence on population control. Your heart may be in the right place, but CNR schemes are just not the answer to the problem. With refined objectives, and scientific, not emotive arguments then maybe you can make a difference. 

        I’d recommend Bad Science  by Ben Goldacre, and Irrationality by Stewart Sutherland as good reads for giving you a crash course on the scientific method, statistics and flaws in every day thinking.

        Like

      5. Thanks for that. Being a Mother doesn’t make for everyday thinking! You give birth to your brain when you have a child. It got so bad I was putting things in the washing machine instead of the fridge. Or I would go into the kitchen and forget what I went in for. lol The Joys of Motherhood. Right I must go or it will be 7am and I will still be sat here.

        Like

      6. ‘instead they remain in kennels for life or until re-homed.’

        Which is fine. Like most people, I would be happy to avoid a mass killing of dogs if kennels/homes could be found for them. I do not want them dead at any cost: I simply want them all off the streets.

        Alas there is a minority of people in Bucharest who think that the dogs have every right to live on the streets and that the city is a better place for them.

        Like

  27. This is where I saw the information, it was in the link that I put up in my previous comment.  

    “But today, much of the Romanian news media chooses to steer clear of the controversial topic of street dogs.  In a nation where the anti-dog sentiment has triumphed over benevolence, the spotlight of coverage is more often on isolated “dog attacks” (many of which are later determined to be knife-inflicted injuries).”

    I haven’t the time to read through all the posts as I’ve actually been productive with trying to do my ‘bit’ to help animals and people, but I did see the comment with regard to cows and dogs, and yes do agree which is why I don’t eat them, but I don’t verbally attack people who do either.  There are a lot of things in a lot of countries UK and USA too which the general population don’t agree with, but they stand up and speak out.  I also don’t agree with halal meat, as it’s extremely cruel, but is done to appease the ethnic minorities, most of whom who live in the UK and get insulted by everything British apart from receiving the benefits.  

    This is also where i found some information, and although on this site it says that it’s nothing to do with Ceaucesco, most other sources state that he is the common denominator for the problem.  

    Dog cruelty has a long history in Romania. Popular belief is that the only way to reduce the street dog population is to kill them en masse.

    The street dogs of Romania are hated, poisoned, beaten, stabbed, shot, run over by cars, burned, and dumped in pits to starve to death. Some who are killed have their ears cut off by people who are able to turn them in for “rewards”. Hundreds of thousands of innocent dogs condemned to death every year, their only crime is being born.
    Animal advocates say the pointless deaths will never cease, as long as Romanian authorities fail to address the cause of the stray problem, and fight only the effects. Dog owners have little responsibility for their pets. Many are not compelled to identify, register, or spay and neuter them.
    Romanian Dog Population Grows into Millions
    The stray problem in Romania began in the late 1980s. Before the communist regime of Dictator Nicolai Ceausescu, most Romanians worked on farms with their companion animals. But Ceausescu’s policies changed agricultural Romania into an urban society complete with overcrowding and food shortages.
     There is also a link between animal cruelty with murderers and paedophiles (copy of link below), and this was from India, not UK or USA
    The need for a change in the police’s approach to complaints of cruelty to animals is urgent because animals have right to live safely and happily and human beings, the most advanced and evolved of all living species, have a responsibility to ensure that they do so. It is also important because instances of people going scot free after violations of the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act of 1960, increases the tendency toward taking laws in general lightly, which is increasingly in evidence today. Equally significant, cruelty toward animals is indicative of aggression or latent or active criminality in a person and identification of such an individual and keeping him or her under surveillance is important for any police force.

    Violent criminals tend to be cruel to both humans and animals. In their paper, ‘From Animal Cruelty to Serial Murder: Applying the Graduation Hypothesis’ (The International Journal of Offender Therapy and Comparative Criminology), Jeremy Wright and Christopher Hensley write that since the late-1970s, the FBI has considered animal cruelty as a possible indicator of future serial murder. 

    “The FBI documented the connection between cruelty to animals and serial murder following a study of 35 imprisoned serial murderers. The convicted murders were asked questions regarding their childhood cruelty toward animals. More than half of the serial murderers admitted to hurting or torturing animals as children or adolescents (Humane Society of the United States, 2001).” 

    In response to where I said about the great Mahatma Ghandi’s quote, it is a great quote as are many others.  Whatever you think of the people of the west, which obviously isn’t a great deal, then please don’t tar us all with the same brush.  Our Prime Minister might govern the nation, but it doesn’t mean we all agree with what is happening, most people don’t agree with the war in Afghanistan, but there is no doubt that they are helping the innocent people of that nation who were ruled by a tyrant.  I also don’t agree with the fact that they have given billions to Somalia when we have people in the UK who are homeless, can’t afford medicine, and some almost living in poverty.  I’m aware of what goes on in the world, and certainly don’t agree with the majoirity of it, but I don’t judge the population in it, as when refer to a country it’s the governing body who could do something that I refer to, not the general people as one.  I don’t any other nation either, people are individuals with their own opinions etc., if we’re refering to Romania, then  I know some Romanian’s who are of pure heart, and equally I’ve known of some that came to the UK and were found to break their children’s arms so that they could obtain more money when begging, which is beyond belief.  Each nation has good and bad in it, no doubt, but it’s shame that the people of this world don’t have compassion for each and every thing we share the planet with.  

    Also please excuse this post, I’m beyond exhausted and am bound to have made grammatical errors. 

    Like

    1. In which case I’d suggest you retract the comment about the majority of dog bites being self inflicted knife wounds, take the time to look up eligibility to benefits in the UK from a source other than the Daily Mail and as for your insinuation that people who want to remove the dog problem are paedophiles comment…well I’m lost for words, I really am.

      Like

    2. “(many of which are later determined to be knife-inflicted injuries)” – ??????????????? you think Romanian doctors are so stupid that they can’t distinguish between a dog bite and a knife inflicted injury?! they’re gonna treat psychopats with anti-rabies vaccine and then report them as dog wounds and that’s why you want to get them to work in West, isn’t it so?

      “I also don’t agree with halal meat, as it’s extremely cruel” – you should read the Muslim scientific point of view, as sacrificing animals in a halal way is actually one of the best ways to do it; the
      purpose is to drain out most of the blood which would serve as a good
      culture medium for micro organisms. the spinal cord must not be cut because
      the nerve fibres to the heart could be damaged during the process causing
      cardiac arrest, stagnating the blood in the blood vessels.

      “The street dogs of Romania are hated, poisoned, beaten, stabbed, shot,
      run over by cars, burned, and dumped in pits to starve to death.” – what do you expect, they’re so wild that they even attempt to bite the wheels of cars on the move! you should go to India and check out how PEOPLE over there live (in about the same condition as dogs live in Bucharest) and you’re gonna realize that wherever there’s overcrowding, bad living conditions appear.

      “The stray problem in Romania began in the late 1980s.” – began my ass. there was no stray dog problem when Ceausescu was in charge, the problem began after 1990 when there were no resources left to handle the situation

      “There is also a link between animal cruelty with murderers and
      paedophiles (copy of link below), and this was from India, not UK or USA” – of course, when you worship cows so much you might just wanna try to f*ck them =)) you see? it’s a local reality that only applies to India

      “Equally significant, cruelty toward animals is indicative of aggression
      or latent or active criminality in a person and identification of such
      an individual and keeping him or her under surveillance is important for
      any police force.” – maybe it happens so in that degenerated country called USA, whose sole aim is to kill innocent people. when people witness the criminal state in which they live it’s a natural thing for them to turn into serial killers, that’s the example they get from their leaders. here in Romania – kicking a dog is just that: kicking a dog and it gets no further.

      “The FBI documented the connection between cruelty to animals and serial
      murder following a study of 35 imprisoned serial murderers.” – we only had 2 serial killers in the history of the country – Ion Ramaru and Beniamin Jian. None of them had a background of animal abuse. I repeat – Romania is not similar to the criminal entity that the USA developed into, people have different mindsets over here, even sick people have different mind sets.

      Girl, of course we can excuse for some grammar errors, but we can’t excuse you for not judging things with your own mind. In that Western society of yours – do they forbid judgement, do they force people to accept what the media says??? Because it appears that you’re not willing to inform yourself from local, experienced sources but instead you’re taking for granted some opinions that almost certainly don’t apply everywhere.

      If the West had been so informed and credible, they wouldn’t be in the situation they are today: bankrupt and waging wars they’re never gonna win. Maybe this should have you thinking outside of the box.

      Like

      1. in Romania animals are killed for food, for hate, for fun … they are killed in the day light… middle of the street … right downtown…. in the seen of the children… kids are growing up hating the animals…. thats primitive and so far behind civilization 

        Like

      2. in Afghanistan it’s PEOPLE who are killed in exactly the same way by the primitive America. i hope they’re gonna lift the Shahada on the White House even if it takes them 100 more years.

        Like

      3. Parmalat….you have NO excuse for slaughter these poor innocent animals….you had plenty of time AND money to ‘deal’ with on a proper way…but you didn’t ..instead you are using primitive and barbaric ways of killing them. The world is horrified watching you…you have to stop and start acting civilized.

        Like

      4. Sup moron!
        If you took the time to examine Romanian legislation you would see that there is not wholesale slaughter.
        Legislation past earlier this year states that a dog has to be homed in a shelter for 30 days to give it a chance to find a new home before being put down via a humane lethal injection. That’s pretty much the same as to what’s acceptable in the UK.

        I’d also suggest you look at the state of Romanian public funds. With all public servants (teachers, police, nurses etc…) receiving a 50% pay CUT last year due to lack of money then to say (in the middle of a recession mind you) that Romania has plenty of money is more than a bit deluded. And before you say they must have been overpaid, a teacher gets around 1300 lei per month. That’s around £300.

        Like

      5. call me how you want -that wont change a thing….it looks like i know more then you about the issue we are discussing here….. money were spent LOTS but not for the care of the street dogs…they gone somewhere else… 

        Like

      6. Show your evidence then. Money received by the EU is allocated to specific projects and government has to go through a long complicated process before it’s released in order to ensure money allocated for one project (i.e. street dogs) isn’t spent elsewhere. So If this is indeed the case, find on the EU SDF the projects that money was supposed to be allocated and show that it has been spent elsewhere. The EU would jump on this.
        Now I’m off to enjoy my day, I have better things to do than talk to bored uneducated housewives.

        Like

      7. i do hope it was done so indeed, there are at least 100 more important things to do in this country than rubbing down dog fur.

        Like

      8. This post was to give anon something to do with his clearly unhappy and troubled life, he sounds so bitter and full of rage 🙂 Keep following me around and not being bothered about me anon 🙂 I see this is another thread ruined with your abuse and anger 🙂

        Like

      9. Sorry, but this is just ridiculous. Have you ever seen a dog killed in front of children, in broad daylight, in Romania? Where do you hear such things? This is utter nonsense.

        Like

    3. media is selling the sensational and the drama because people prefer it in detriment of truth. is healthy to question what you read and compare it with one of the most reliable sources of knowledge: tradition.
      you know what about popular beliefs here?
      please don’t mistake an acute crises of stray dogs in Bucuresti with general attitude towards animals in general. biodiversity is more relevant.
      “dog cruelty has a long history in Romania”? is it? how long? 2000 years? 20?

      Like

  28. This is where I saw the information, it was in the link that I put up in my previous comment.  

    “But today, much of the Romanian news media chooses to steer clear of the controversial topic of street dogs.  In a nation where the anti-dog sentiment has triumphed over benevolence, the spotlight of coverage is more often on isolated “dog attacks” (many of which are later determined to be knife-inflicted injuries).”

    I haven’t the time to read through all the posts as I’ve actually been productive with trying to do my ‘bit’ to help animals and people, but I did see the comment with regard to cows and dogs, and yes do agree which is why I don’t eat them, but I don’t verbally attack people who do either.  There are a lot of things in a lot of countries UK and USA too which the general population don’t agree with, but they stand up and speak out.  I also don’t agree with halal meat, as it’s extremely cruel, but is done to appease the ethnic minorities, most of whom who live in the UK and get insulted by everything British apart from receiving the benefits.  

    This is also where i found some information, and although on this site it says that it’s nothing to do with Ceaucesco, most other sources state that he is the common denominator for the problem.  

    Dog cruelty has a long history in Romania. Popular belief is that the only way to reduce the street dog population is to kill them en masse.

    The street dogs of Romania are hated, poisoned, beaten, stabbed, shot, run over by cars, burned, and dumped in pits to starve to death. Some who are killed have their ears cut off by people who are able to turn them in for “rewards”. Hundreds of thousands of innocent dogs condemned to death every year, their only crime is being born.
    Animal advocates say the pointless deaths will never cease, as long as Romanian authorities fail to address the cause of the stray problem, and fight only the effects. Dog owners have little responsibility for their pets. Many are not compelled to identify, register, or spay and neuter them.
    Romanian Dog Population Grows into Millions
    The stray problem in Romania began in the late 1980s. Before the communist regime of Dictator Nicolai Ceausescu, most Romanians worked on farms with their companion animals. But Ceausescu’s policies changed agricultural Romania into an urban society complete with overcrowding and food shortages.
     There is also a link between animal cruelty with murderers and paedophiles (copy of link below), and this was from India, not UK or USA
    The need for a change in the police’s approach to complaints of cruelty to animals is urgent because animals have right to live safely and happily and human beings, the most advanced and evolved of all living species, have a responsibility to ensure that they do so. It is also important because instances of people going scot free after violations of the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act of 1960, increases the tendency toward taking laws in general lightly, which is increasingly in evidence today. Equally significant, cruelty toward animals is indicative of aggression or latent or active criminality in a person and identification of such an individual and keeping him or her under surveillance is important for any police force.

    Violent criminals tend to be cruel to both humans and animals. In their paper, ‘From Animal Cruelty to Serial Murder: Applying the Graduation Hypothesis’ (The International Journal of Offender Therapy and Comparative Criminology), Jeremy Wright and Christopher Hensley write that since the late-1970s, the FBI has considered animal cruelty as a possible indicator of future serial murder. 

    “The FBI documented the connection between cruelty to animals and serial murder following a study of 35 imprisoned serial murderers. The convicted murders were asked questions regarding their childhood cruelty toward animals. More than half of the serial murderers admitted to hurting or torturing animals as children or adolescents (Humane Society of the United States, 2001).” 

    In response to where I said about the great Mahatma Ghandi’s quote, it is a great quote as are many others.  Whatever you think of the people of the west, which obviously isn’t a great deal, then please don’t tar us all with the same brush.  Our Prime Minister might govern the nation, but it doesn’t mean we all agree with what is happening, most people don’t agree with the war in Afghanistan, but there is no doubt that they are helping the innocent people of that nation who were ruled by a tyrant.  I also don’t agree with the fact that they have given billions to Somalia when we have people in the UK who are homeless, can’t afford medicine, and some almost living in poverty.  I’m aware of what goes on in the world, and certainly don’t agree with the majoirity of it, but I don’t judge the population in it, as when refer to a country it’s the governing body who could do something that I refer to, not the general people as one.  I don’t any other nation either, people are individuals with their own opinions etc., if we’re refering to Romania, then  I know some Romanian’s who are of pure heart, and equally I’ve known of some that came to the UK and were found to break their children’s arms so that they could obtain more money when begging, which is beyond belief.  Each nation has good and bad in it, no doubt, but it’s shame that the people of this world don’t have compassion for each and every thing we share the planet with.  

    Also please excuse this post, I’m beyond exhausted and am bound to have made grammatical errors. 

    Like

    1. In which case I’d suggest you retract the comment about the majority of dog bites being self inflicted knife wounds, take the time to look up eligibility to benefits in the UK from a source other than the Daily Mail and as for your insinuation that people who want to remove the dog problem are paedophiles comment…well I’m lost for words, I really am.

      Like

    2. “(many of which are later determined to be knife-inflicted injuries)” – ??????????????? you think Romanian doctors are so stupid that they can’t distinguish between a dog bite and a knife inflicted injury?! they’re gonna treat psychopats with anti-rabies vaccine and then report them as dog wounds and that’s why you want to get them to work in West, isn’t it so?

      “I also don’t agree with halal meat, as it’s extremely cruel” – you should read the Muslim scientific point of view, as sacrificing animals in a halal way is actually one of the best ways to do it; the
      purpose is to drain out most of the blood which would serve as a good
      culture medium for micro organisms. the spinal cord must not be cut because
      the nerve fibres to the heart could be damaged during the process causing
      cardiac arrest, stagnating the blood in the blood vessels.

      “The street dogs of Romania are hated, poisoned, beaten, stabbed, shot,
      run over by cars, burned, and dumped in pits to starve to death.” – what do you expect, they’re so wild that they even attempt to bite the wheels of cars on the move! you should go to India and check out how PEOPLE over there live (in about the same condition as dogs live in Bucharest) and you’re gonna realize that wherever there’s overcrowding, bad living conditions appear.

      “The stray problem in Romania began in the late 1980s.” – began my ass. there was no stray dog problem when Ceausescu was in charge, the problem began after 1990 when there were no resources left to handle the situation

      “There is also a link between animal cruelty with murderers and
      paedophiles (copy of link below), and this was from India, not UK or USA” – of course, when you worship cows so much you might just wanna try to f*ck them =)) you see? it’s a local reality that only applies to India

      “Equally significant, cruelty toward animals is indicative of aggression
      or latent or active criminality in a person and identification of such
      an individual and keeping him or her under surveillance is important for
      any police force.” – maybe it happens so in that degenerated country called USA, whose sole aim is to kill innocent people. when people witness the criminal state in which they live it’s a natural thing for them to turn into serial killers, that’s the example they get from their leaders. here in Romania – kicking a dog is just that: kicking a dog and it gets no further.

      “The FBI documented the connection between cruelty to animals and serial
      murder following a study of 35 imprisoned serial murderers.” – we only had 2 serial killers in the history of the country – Ion Ramaru and Beniamin Jian. None of them had a background of animal abuse. I repeat – Romania is not similar to the criminal entity that the USA developed into, people have different mindsets over here, even sick people have different mind sets.

      Girl, of course we can excuse for some grammar errors, but we can’t excuse you for not judging things with your own mind. In that Western society of yours – do they forbid judgement, do they force people to accept what the media says??? Because it appears that you’re not willing to inform yourself from local, experienced sources but instead you’re taking for granted some opinions that almost certainly don’t apply everywhere.

      If the West had been so informed and credible, they wouldn’t be in the situation they are today: bankrupt and waging wars they’re never gonna win. Maybe this should have you thinking outside of the box.

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      1. in Romania animals are killed for food, for hate, for fun … they are killed in the day light… middle of the street … right downtown…. in the seen of the children… kids are growing up hating the animals…. thats primitive and so far behind civilization 

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      2. in Afghanistan it’s PEOPLE who are killed in exactly the same way by the primitive America. i hope they’re gonna lift the Shahada on the White House even if it takes them 100 more years.

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      3. Parmalat….you have NO excuse for slaughter these poor innocent animals….you had plenty of time AND money to ‘deal’ with on a proper way…but you didn’t ..instead you are using primitive and barbaric ways of killing them. The world is horrified watching you…you have to stop and start acting civilized.

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      4. Sup moron!
        If you took the time to examine Romanian legislation you would see that there is not wholesale slaughter.
        Legislation past earlier this year states that a dog has to be homed in a shelter for 30 days to give it a chance to find a new home before being put down via a humane lethal injection. That’s pretty much the same as to what’s acceptable in the UK.

        I’d also suggest you look at the state of Romanian public funds. With all public servants (teachers, police, nurses etc…) receiving a 50% pay CUT last year due to lack of money then to say (in the middle of a recession mind you) that Romania has plenty of money is more than a bit deluded. And before you say they must have been overpaid, a teacher gets around 1300 lei per month. That’s around £300.

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      5. call me how you want -that wont change a thing….it looks like i know more then you about the issue we are discussing here….. money were spent LOTS but not for the care of the street dogs…they gone somewhere else… 

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      6. Show your evidence then. Money received by the EU is allocated to specific projects and government has to go through a long complicated process before it’s released in order to ensure money allocated for one project (i.e. street dogs) isn’t spent elsewhere. So If this is indeed the case, find on the EU SDF the projects that money was supposed to be allocated and show that it has been spent elsewhere. The EU would jump on this.
        Now I’m off to enjoy my day, I have better things to do than talk to bored uneducated housewives.

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      7. i do hope it was done so indeed, there are at least 100 more important things to do in this country than rubbing down dog fur.

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      8. Sorry, but this is just ridiculous. Have you ever seen a dog killed in front of children, in broad daylight, in Romania? Where do you hear such things? This is utter nonsense.

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    3. media is selling the sensational and the drama because people prefer it in detriment of truth. is healthy to question what you read and compare it with one of the most reliable sources of knowledge: tradition.
      you know what about popular beliefs here?
      please don’t mistake an acute crises of stray dogs in Bucuresti with general attitude towards animals in general. biodiversity is more relevant.
      “dog cruelty has a long history in Romania”? is it? how long? 2000 years? 20?

      Like

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